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All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM

Lanfear's viewpoint at the Cleansing seems to suggest that even in the Age of Legends, she never met a woman who matched her strength.

I doubt one is going to pop up in this age, with about 1% of the population size of the previous age.

Her point was that no one was stronger than her in the Age of Legends. Doesn't mean no one equaled her!

And if the population is an issue... you should then be rigorously arguing that Lanfear cannot be the only Forsaken stronger than Nynaeve.

It was extremely rare for women to be stronger than Graendal in the AoL, yet we have Nynaeve and five others who are not Forsaken top Graendal. That means all bets are off, and Lanfear is definitely not alone at the top.


Sanderson has upset the applecart. Frankly, RJ said Nynaeve was as strong as most of the female Forsaken. People interpreted that to mean she was as strong as the average female Forsaken.

Turns out, she is only exceeded by Lanfear, and possibly matched by Semirhage.

It makes no sense to me, but there you have it.

This message last edited by Shannow on 18/11/2009 at 07:07:26 PM
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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2497 Views
Sounds good Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1327 Views
Re: Sounds good Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1451 Views
Re: Someryn Logain - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1437 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1306 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1404 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... Shannow - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1331 Views
As I understand it... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1392 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1463 Views
Agreed. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 1249 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 1085 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list kcf - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1367 Views
Re: Sounds good kcf - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 1218 Views
Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM 1365 Views
Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? kcf - 18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM 1506 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 1255 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... kcf - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 1297 Views
But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM 1319 Views
Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. kcf - 18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM 1306 Views
That blows a heck of a lot of this theory out of the water... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:33:39 PM 1309 Views
it's possible, but I'd say unlikely kcf - 18/11/2009 07:34:32 PM 1310 Views
One problem... Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1429 Views
No... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1330 Views
That's not a problem. Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1285 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 1195 Views
Sorry buddy Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1291 Views
Re: Sorry buddy rhiane - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 1254 Views
Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question? Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM 1281 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1486 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1524 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. Logain - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1338 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 709 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 729 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1365 Views
As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM 724 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. Wotmaniac Reborn - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 1018 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 763 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. Gher - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1298 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? beetnemesis - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 1101 Views
Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM 1332 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Tedtheman - 18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 1178 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 1238 Views
IMO... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1369 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 1257 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1551 Views
That just doesn't make sense... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1335 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 723 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 1207 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 1074 Views
Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM 1300 Views
All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM 1308 Views
I don't think... Etzel - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1411 Views
Damane never recieve special status... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 1243 Views
Good point... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 1256 Views
Thing is... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1283 Views
Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him. Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM 1457 Views
And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM 1071 Views
He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM 1083 Views
But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM 1126 Views
My point was... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1262 Views
I agree *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 683 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 1194 Views
Sera must be stronger... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 1217 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 1258 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 1194 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 1261 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 1273 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 1129 Views
You misunderstand me... Etzel - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 1191 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 1176 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM 1338 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 783 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 568 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 1044 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1337 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 1101 Views
I have one problem with your list. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1291 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 1156 Views
I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM 677 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 1231 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. TaskmasterJack - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 1257 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1290 Views
I think it goes like this: Logain - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 1275 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. Logain - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1294 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 1194 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 1252 Views
Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM 683 Views
Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM 683 Views
I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM 692 Views
I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM 686 Views
Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM 1309 Views
She only says that Egwene is stronger and had been forced darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 01:54:56 AM 1276 Views
Where does she say this? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 1236 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 1239 Views
Here are the quotes... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 1290 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 1163 Views
I could say the same... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 1172 Views
So let me get this straight... Shannow - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 1213 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 1238 Views
Look at it this way... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 1197 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 1115 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. Logain - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1324 Views
Totally disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1332 Views
Re: Totally disagree... Logain - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 1216 Views
Males likely go like this... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 1198 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1208 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1268 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 1144 Views
About the top 6... Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 1226 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 1276 Views
That's ridiculous... Shannow - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 1161 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 1195 Views
Well... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 1219 Views
This is getting idiotic... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 1203 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 1198 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 1157 Views
Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM 637 Views
But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM 658 Views
Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM* Logain - 28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM 703 Views
Disagreement Corwin - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1293 Views
Some more from Brandon... kcf - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 1194 Views
So we're back where we started? fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 992 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? kcf - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1298 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. Shannow - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 1156 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 1254 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1325 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM 1179 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM 1182 Views
Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM 1226 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM 1174 Views
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