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But why doesn't it make sense? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM


Sanderson has upset the applecart. Frankly, RJ said Nynaeve was as strong as most of the female Forsaken. People interpreted that to mean she was as strong as the average female Forsaken.

Turns out, she is only exceeded by Lanfear, and possibly matched by Semirhage.

It makes no sense to me, but there you have it.



I never understood why people let themselves believe Nynaeve was so much lower on the strength scale. She's one of the two most important female protagonists, the one who will join Rand in the most powerful use of the OP ever seen. Why would RJ have this woman so weak?

I found it very easy to believe that she's near the top of the strength tree. Issues like her difficulty with shielding Logain, being matched by Talaan, with Alivia being much stronger than her... all these I could easily believe were a result of her not having reached her potential.

And I don't see RJ keeping Lanfear on a pedestal either.
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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2443 Views
Sounds good Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1277 Views
Re: Sounds good Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1387 Views
Re: Someryn Logain - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1392 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1254 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1346 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... Shannow - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1262 Views
As I understand it... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1345 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1416 Views
Agreed. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 1204 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 1030 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list kcf - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1306 Views
Re: Sounds good kcf - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 1180 Views
Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM 1313 Views
Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? kcf - 18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM 1437 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 1207 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... kcf - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 1239 Views
But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM 1278 Views
Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. kcf - 18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM 1257 Views
That blows a heck of a lot of this theory out of the water... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:33:39 PM 1259 Views
it's possible, but I'd say unlikely kcf - 18/11/2009 07:34:32 PM 1263 Views
One problem... Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1381 Views
No... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1284 Views
That's not a problem. Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1235 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 1147 Views
Sorry buddy Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1241 Views
Re: Sorry buddy rhiane - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 1197 Views
Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question? Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM 1237 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1416 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1489 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. Logain - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1288 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 684 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 705 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1315 Views
As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM 700 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. Wotmaniac Reborn - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 970 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 744 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. Gher - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1254 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? beetnemesis - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 1043 Views
Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM 1278 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Tedtheman - 18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 1121 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 1189 Views
IMO... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1305 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 1184 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1504 Views
That just doesn't make sense... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1289 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 705 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 1151 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 1029 Views
Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM 1240 Views
All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM 1238 Views
I don't think... Etzel - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1363 Views
Damane never recieve special status... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 1190 Views
Good point... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 1213 Views
Thing is... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1240 Views
Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him. Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM 1317 Views
And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM 1017 Views
He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM 1037 Views
But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM 1080 Views
My point was... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1215 Views
I agree *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 667 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 1150 Views
Sera must be stronger... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 1167 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 1201 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 1138 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 1214 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 1219 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 1077 Views
You misunderstand me... Etzel - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 1136 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 1133 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM 1288 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 760 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 549 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 1002 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1292 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 1055 Views
I have one problem with your list. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1241 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 1101 Views
I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM 656 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 1183 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. TaskmasterJack - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 1208 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1244 Views
I think it goes like this: Logain - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 1220 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. Logain - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1245 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 1154 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 1197 Views
Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM 666 Views
Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM 665 Views
I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM 671 Views
I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM 668 Views
Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM 1248 Views
She only says that Egwene is stronger and had been forced darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 01:54:56 AM 1218 Views
Where does she say this? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 1183 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 1192 Views
Here are the quotes... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 1233 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 1105 Views
I could say the same... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 1118 Views
So let me get this straight... Shannow - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 1152 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 1192 Views
Look at it this way... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 1158 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 1069 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. Logain - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1262 Views
Totally disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1286 Views
Re: Totally disagree... Logain - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 1164 Views
Males likely go like this... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 1146 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1161 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1230 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 1097 Views
About the top 6... Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 1172 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 1236 Views
That's ridiculous... Shannow - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 1113 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 1148 Views
Well... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 1154 Views
This is getting idiotic... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 1144 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 1141 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 1101 Views
Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM 622 Views
But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM 633 Views
Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM* Logain - 28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM 666 Views
Disagreement Corwin - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1242 Views
Some more from Brandon... kcf - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 1139 Views
So we're back where we started? fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 935 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? kcf - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1252 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. Shannow - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 1110 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 1192 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1272 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM 1127 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM 1130 Views
Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM 1163 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM 1112 Views
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