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Hmm... Sidious Send a noteboard - 19/11/2009 04:47:12 PM

I disagree. I think Sanderson has given us important new info that throws the female strength list into turmoil.

Here's why I say so:

1. It is a fallacy that RJ said Nynaeve was as strong as the average female Forsaken. That was our INTERPRETATION. But if I recall correctly, what RJ actually said, was that Nynaeve was as strong as MOST of the female Forsaken.

After Sanderson's quote, I take that to mean that MOST of the female Forsaken are not stronger than Nynaeve.


That was because RJ said that quote when FoH was out, making Nynaeve at least equal or as strong as Moghedien, Semirhage and Mesaana - and weaker than Graendal and Lanfear. Cyndane was not around. That still holds with what RJ said. If Cyndane is really that weak then Lanfear was enormously powerful compared to Graendal, and I find that very unlikely. On the other hand, it fits in with Semirhage's statement that Lanfear be given to her.

The Cyndane quote is an interesting one, and it would be great if Sanderson could clarify the situation for us. But the fact remains that he has not refuted the fact that she is significantly weakened, nor has he refuted the fact that she is below Nynaeve in strength.

In fact, his initial reaction to KCF's question was that only exceptional women are above Nynaeve, and when KCF referred to Cyndane, he was very dismissive of her strength.


To be honest, his next answer scares me. The fact that he argued with Maria over her strength which is clearly on a strength list is horrendous. He initially said that Cyndane was very very weak... who knows if he was confused with Cyndane and Cetalia or Cabriana. Then he said she was weakened, then he said her strength is what we expect it to be.

I agree that the so called definitive strength list hinges around Cyndane's placement, and until Sanderson clarifies the confusion he caused, that placement is now in doubt.


If Cyndane is weaker than Nynaeve it not only throws the female Forsaken into turmoil but the males too and it makes Lanfear so strong it's scary.

Still, we now know Mesaana overrated herself, and we know there are only 6 women above Nynaeve.


Well Mesaana didn't overrate herself actually. She said she matched Semirhage well in most areas and had strength where Semirhage had weaknesses. I still think this is true - Mesaana might be good at the weather for instance - we know that Semirhage is not.

Lanfear, Alivia and Sharina are definitely there. Talaan and Semirhage MIGHT be there. We're not sure of Someryn and we're not sure of Cyndane and Graendal.


Lanfear, Alivia and Sharina for certain. I think there's almost a 100% chance that Cyndane and Graendal are there too because many quotes in the series support this. Someryn is conjecture, but she is probably Forsaken strength.

It is also conceivable that Cyndane is now equal to Nynaeve, making Graendal weaker than Nynaeve.


I don't believe that someone of Nynaeve's strength could fight Alivia with a strong angreal, no matter what her knowledge.

With the new info Sanderson so graciously provided, I'm expecting further clarity in the near future.


I just want him to look at the list before he answers.

Now we just need to get people to ask him. I see that this topic is now being discussed on Theoryland, Dragonmount, 13th depository and even on ASOIAF boards.

Surely the level of interest will result in more people asking him these kinds of questions.


We should move on to the males. They're actually more of an enigma.
Wheel of Time board admin
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Female Forsaken strength : a new post - 19/11/2009 04:12:35 PM 1907 Views
Except... - 19/11/2009 04:26:32 PM 930 Views
There's no evidence for that - 19/11/2009 04:31:17 PM 876 Views
It's common sense - 19/11/2009 04:40:01 PM 802 Views
No, it's based on absolutely nothing - 19/11/2009 04:50:30 PM 928 Views
If you agree that there are stronger damane than Alivia... - 19/11/2009 05:00:05 PM 805 Views
I didn't say that - 19/11/2009 05:07:33 PM 852 Views
Well, I think you are wrong... - 19/11/2009 05:35:27 PM 833 Views
Glad to have you back. Now for the arguments to start! - 19/11/2009 04:29:01 PM 961 Views
Hmm... - 19/11/2009 04:47:12 PM 962 Views
Actually, you are the one placing Lanfear immensely high, my list reduced the strength difference... - 19/11/2009 05:05:18 PM 1050 Views
But I'm not - 19/11/2009 05:17:05 PM 928 Views
Let me ask you this... - 19/11/2009 10:13:12 PM 967 Views
Very good point *NM* - 20/11/2009 01:38:55 AM 419 Views
One possibility - 20/11/2009 03:18:55 AM 895 Views
All assumption - 20/11/2009 04:11:20 AM 859 Views
Why introduce that concept, if it is just of academic importance? - 20/11/2009 07:41:54 AM 782 Views
You don't know the significance of it at all - 20/11/2009 03:14:46 PM 925 Views
Why? - 20/11/2009 03:17:51 PM 1443 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2009 04:30:50 PM 816 Views
How can you argue in such a way and still keep a straight face (presumably)... - 20/11/2009 05:07:39 PM 823 Views
Re: How can you argue in such a way and still keep a straight face (presumably)... - 21/11/2009 10:55:47 AM 827 Views
Is Graendal the only Forsaken NOT to overstate her own ability then? - 21/11/2009 01:53:28 PM 946 Views
Probably not in this case - 21/11/2009 11:34:25 PM 810 Views
Your rankings hinge ENTIRELY on whether you have Graendal correctly placed. - 20/11/2009 03:24:22 PM 814 Views
Yeah... entirely - 20/11/2009 04:33:45 PM 778 Views
Okay, "entirely" was a bad choice of word. - 20/11/2009 09:57:52 PM 809 Views
Re: Okay, "entirely" was a bad choice of word. - 21/11/2009 10:48:16 AM 891 Views
Re: Let me ask you this... - 23/12/2009 04:30:27 PM 860 Views
*correction*Re: Let me ask you this... - 23/12/2009 04:32:02 PM 812 Views
my comments w/ edit - 19/11/2009 04:37:27 PM 878 Views
Re: my comments w/ edit - 19/11/2009 04:54:30 PM 946 Views
Re: my comments w/ edit - 23/12/2009 04:42:15 PM 757 Views
What ever happened to all teh info from wotmania? Especially the FAQs? *NM* - 19/11/2009 05:01:45 PM 567 Views
http://13depository.blogspot.com/ *NM* - 19/11/2009 05:31:01 PM 431 Views
Re: Female Forsaken strength : a new post - 19/11/2009 05:39:10 PM 900 Views
Re: Female Forsaken strength : a new post -- What about Dexterity?? - 19/11/2009 06:44:31 PM 896 Views
This perfectly matches my understanding of the situation. - 19/11/2009 07:06:31 PM 778 Views
Agreed! This make more sense than the previous list *NM* - 20/11/2009 12:07:37 AM 472 Views
Too many levels - 20/11/2009 01:48:24 AM 891 Views
You are completely right about too many levels. - 20/11/2009 04:17:17 AM 776 Views
21 levels is largely a myth - 20/11/2009 04:27:27 AM 807 Views
Re: 21 levels is largely a myth - 20/11/2009 01:51:17 PM 915 Views
Thanks for the post. Interesting stuff there. *NM* - 20/11/2009 03:14:12 PM 400 Views
That's good to know. - 20/11/2009 07:56:41 PM 761 Views
I have to disagree for a couple of reasons. - 20/11/2009 04:14:40 AM 930 Views
Talaan is not stronger than Nynaeve - 28/11/2009 08:27:22 PM 1021 Views
Re: Talaan is not stronger than Nynaeve - 28/11/2009 10:05:15 PM 1041 Views
Talaan has be channeling for 6 or 7 years - 28/11/2009 10:56:12 PM 829 Views
Re: I have to disagree for a couple of reasons. - 30/12/2009 12:37:40 AM 1264 Views
Agree with nearly all - 20/11/2009 04:43:47 AM 771 Views
more hopefully to come - 20/11/2009 08:15:00 PM 747 Views
Thanks KCF, that's a great question to ask. - 20/11/2009 08:28:32 PM 996 Views
A little more evidence that Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage - 29/11/2009 12:12:37 AM 816 Views
I agree that Graendal is the 2nd most powerful woman Forsaken - 29/11/2009 04:07:00 PM 759 Views
It's possible - 30/11/2009 08:23:28 PM 792 Views
Re: It's possible - 01/12/2009 06:18:56 PM 875 Views

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