I'm being generous. Because if Egwene plus Lelaine and Romanda cannot match a male Forsaken, then they should be EVEN LOWER on the strength scale than I am arguing.
The truth is that AT MOST Egwene plus Lelaine and Romanda can match a male Forsaken. Egwene was far from certain that they could. In fact, her actual words were something along the lines of "She doubts that herself, Lelaine and Romanda (the three strongest Aes Sedai in the camp) could match a male Forsaken.
Now, on Darius's list, Egwene plus Romanda on their OWN would exceed Lanfear. since Egwene is on 80 and Romanda is on 50 it means that together they are at 130, which is far greater than Lanfear who is at 100. Even after a 10% linking loss they are still stronger than Lanfear. And that's without even adding Lelaine into the mix.
So, if Lanfear is comparable to a male Forsaken, then Darius's model falls apart completely. ESPECIALLY if Egwene plus Lelaine Plus Romanda combined are still weaker than a male Forsaken.
So I am being generous by giving those three women the benefit of the doubt when reading Egwene's statement. And even by doing this, Darius's model is disproven.
The simple point is that if Egwene, Lelaine and Romanda together would be hard pressed to match a male Forsaken, then how can Egwene and Romanda (without Lelaine) exceed Lanfear?
They cannot, and that is one of the many indications that Darius has placed modern Aes Sedai far too high up on the ladder. And this has a domino effect on his placings, because if you drop the likes of Moiraine and Lelaine, then you have to drop Egwene as well. Which is the correct thing to do, because Egwene is not close to 80% of Lanfear's strength. It is laughable to suggest it.
She is in fact around 50% of Lanfear's strength. THAT is the model that fits the evidence best.
The truth is that AT MOST Egwene plus Lelaine and Romanda can match a male Forsaken. Egwene was far from certain that they could. In fact, her actual words were something along the lines of "She doubts that herself, Lelaine and Romanda (the three strongest Aes Sedai in the camp) could match a male Forsaken.
Now, on Darius's list, Egwene plus Romanda on their OWN would exceed Lanfear. since Egwene is on 80 and Romanda is on 50 it means that together they are at 130, which is far greater than Lanfear who is at 100. Even after a 10% linking loss they are still stronger than Lanfear. And that's without even adding Lelaine into the mix.
So, if Lanfear is comparable to a male Forsaken, then Darius's model falls apart completely. ESPECIALLY if Egwene plus Lelaine Plus Romanda combined are still weaker than a male Forsaken.
So I am being generous by giving those three women the benefit of the doubt when reading Egwene's statement. And even by doing this, Darius's model is disproven.
The simple point is that if Egwene, Lelaine and Romanda together would be hard pressed to match a male Forsaken, then how can Egwene and Romanda (without Lelaine) exceed Lanfear?
They cannot, and that is one of the many indications that Darius has placed modern Aes Sedai far too high up on the ladder. And this has a domino effect on his placings, because if you drop the likes of Moiraine and Lelaine, then you have to drop Egwene as well. Which is the correct thing to do, because Egwene is not close to 80% of Lanfear's strength. It is laughable to suggest it.
She is in fact around 50% of Lanfear's strength. THAT is the model that fits the evidence best.
I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates
- 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM
1497 Views
Few glaring errors...
- 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM
1062 Views
Re: Few glaring errors...
- 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM
1010 Views
You don't get it, do you...
- 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM
982 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear?
- 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM
855 Views
That only strengthens my point.
- 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM
922 Views
What you are missing is that
- 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM
925 Views
I'm not missing it at all..
- 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM
952 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text
- 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM
914 Views
Not correct...
- 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM
996 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence
- 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM
895 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong.
- 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM
900 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy
- 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM
894 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH
- 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM
973 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range...
- 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM
999 Views
Corrections
- 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM
1036 Views
No...
- 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM
924 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM*
- 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM
679 Views
Not if you point out that the average AS is not as strong as the overall average channeler
- 25/12/2009 04:30:17 AM
898 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers
- 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM
870 Views
Perhaps...
- 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM
974 Views
I've always hated bell curves
- 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM
897 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average...
- 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM
933 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve
- 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM
765 Views
Why?
- 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM
915 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the
- 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM
814 Views
Always go back to the evidence...
- 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM
970 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this
- 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM
869 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments
- 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM
906 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem
- 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM
890 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
942 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength...
- 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM
924 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength...
- 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM
1024 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength
- 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM
909 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM
496 Views
Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent?
- 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM
819 Views
It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough...
- 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM
907 Views
Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too
- 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM
923 Views
Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
522 Views
LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing
- 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM
974 Views
Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength...
- 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM
868 Views
The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work
- 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM
1029 Views
No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect!
- 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM
845 Views
This is true, however...
- 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM
958 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it...
- 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM
1284 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation
- 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM
992 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule...
- 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM
830 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling
- 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM
835 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM*
- 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM
469 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then?
- 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM
865 Views
And there you have it...Thank you.
- 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM
887 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine
- 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM
865 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM
475 Views
No more than yours is!
- 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM
883 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM
887 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population *NM*
- 26/12/2009 12:41:01 PM
455 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM
895 Views
Goodness
- 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM
898 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author
- 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM
837 Views
No you are not
- 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM
896 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this
- 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM
861 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution
- 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM
881 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't)
- 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM
921 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution
- 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM
878 Views


