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Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM
Except that my point was that one of the stronger women, Aviendha, has her gateway's affected in a way that you can't gauge her strength from it, and that we don't know if it is easier to skim with Saidar versus trying to Travel with it.

My point is that there are many variables preventing this from being a dependable means of gauging the strength factor. Rand, for example, is said to have a Talent for Travelling - is this why his Gateways are the larget an individual, unaided channeler can make or is it because of his greater strength with saidin? You could debate this backwards and forwards, because RJ made the point confusing enough to make it uncertain. Unless you are saying that his Talent has absolutely nothing to do with Gateway size, which unfortunately is neither supported nor refuted by the books.

Also, you fall into the trap that the Aes Sedai fall into - they spent so much time using strength to determine ranking and mindset to determine who they should allow to reach certain phases of training that Berowin and other channelers with surprisingly potent Talents are not truly affiliated with the Tower. IE: Generating an effect is one thing, but strength is not always as important as affinity, skill and a Talent.

Just because all the characters believe something to be true does not mean it is so.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM 1500 Views
There are 21 levels, not 100. More later. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/12/2009 07:23:18 PM 562 Views
RJ has said a number of times that the 21 level scale darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 07:35:25 PM 876 Views
Few glaring errors... Shannow - 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM 1063 Views
Re: Few glaring errors... darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM 1015 Views
You don't get it, do you... Shannow - 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM 987 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear? fionwe1987 - 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM 864 Views
That only strengthens my point. Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM 927 Views
No it does not. fionwe1987 - 28/12/2009 02:45:42 AM 974 Views
What you are missing is that darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM 930 Views
I'm not missing it at all.. Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM 959 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 923 Views
Not correct... Shannow - 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM 1001 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM 897 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong. Shannow - 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM 908 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM 899 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH redhand - 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM 981 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range... Shannow - 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM 1005 Views
Corrections Shadowkiller - 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM 1042 Views
No... Shannow - 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM 934 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM* Shadowkiller - 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM 680 Views
Not if you point out that the average AS is not as strong as the overall average channeler darius_sedai - 25/12/2009 04:30:17 AM 901 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM 880 Views
Perhaps... Phelix - 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM 986 Views
I've always hated bell curves Ryan - 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM 906 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average... Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM 939 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM 773 Views
Why? Shannow - 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM 917 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM 819 Views
Always go back to the evidence... Shannow - 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM 974 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM 872 Views
Name an item you dispute and I will provide the quote.... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:19:49 PM 878 Views
it's addressed below darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:23:58 PM 878 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments darius_sedai - 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM 912 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM 897 Views
Nice! It proves what I've been saying for ages... fionwe1987 - 29/12/2009 10:13:41 PM 914 Views
Which is why I contend that they are about 80% of Lanfear darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 10:16:07 PM 914 Views
I wasn't trying to rip him a new one. Phelix - 22/12/2009 09:38:43 PM 800 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 949 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... Shannow - 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM 932 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM 1031 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM 915 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM 500 Views
Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM 822 Views
It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM 912 Views
Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM 929 Views
Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 525 Views
LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM 984 Views
Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength... Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM 871 Views
The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM 1038 Views
Beonin's Gateway darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:30:25 PM 896 Views
No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect! Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM 850 Views
Nope, Beonin shouldn't be that strong! darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:48:30 PM 839 Views
This is true, however... lyringlas - 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM 967 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM 1290 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM 997 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule... Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM 836 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM 842 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM 471 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM 869 Views
And there you have it...Thank you. Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM 892 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM 871 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM 477 Views
No more than yours is! darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM 889 Views
That entire passage is in the context of strength... Shannow - 23/12/2009 07:55:50 PM 786 Views
You need to re-read some of this stuff darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 11:01:15 PM 983 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM 899 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population *NM* Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:41:01 PM 458 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM 901 Views
Goodness Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM 905 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM 850 Views
Since you love Wiki so much darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:55:09 AM 844 Views
No you are not Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM 907 Views
Dude we're discussion works of fiction darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 04:08:12 AM 963 Views
Dumb Bell Distribution of Mongoloid Turings Abunderment - 31/12/2009 04:36:50 AM 986 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM 866 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM 887 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM 929 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM 883 Views
You are the one who is MIS-USING his statement Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:44:26 AM 866 Views
darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:48:20 AM 1152 Views
The pathos of Darius Abunderment - 31/12/2009 04:26:15 AM 904 Views
Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) knightmarea7x - 29/12/2009 12:46:13 AM 798 Views
Re: Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 04:21:47 PM 885 Views
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