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And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) Abunderment Send a noteboard - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM
Let me start out by stating the various facts that we know for certain:

1. OP Strength follows a Bell Curve


I suggest you are mixing up your maths. The bell curve is a FREQUENCY DISTRIBUTION of something countable. It cannot be used as a tool to determine the nature of the countable things.

For example, take 3 people (Gawyn, Galad, Elayne) with IQs respectively of 80, 95, 140 (sd = 15, mean = 110). All we can say is that Gawyn has a higher IQ than 2% of the population, Galad has a higher IQ than 16% of the population and Elayne has a higher IQ than 84% of the population.

We cannot say what IQ means by contemplating the standardised curve. We cannot say that Gawyn and Galad are (together) smarter than Elayne. We cannot if IQ of 80 is sufficient to play stones. If we know these things, we know for other reasons.

To "solve" the power issue you simply need to construct formulae and solve. Given that we rely on terms such as "nearly", "twice" and so on, there is a big margin to play with. Using a scale is a good idea, however it should be linear. Standardising to 0-100 adds complexity, suggests log or exp values, and may be source of your misplaced use of the bell curve.

Once you had formula and data sorted out, then you could use normal distribution to say things. For example, you might say "gee, there is a real lack of strong women from Seanchan. What's the chance this occurs randomly? 0.001%! There is something odd afoot, I think."

Is there a list anywhere of every RJ quote on relative strengths? I'd love to look thru.



RJ would have known difference between DATA and DISTRIBUTION OF THAT DATA.

If he referred to a bell curve, it would have been in context of DISTRIBUTION.

You are using bell curve for the data, and drawing inferences.

This is simply WRONG and MISLEADING.

It is also UNNECESSARY. Using RJ's bell curve clue PROPERLY would give much more interesting information.

Like a typical AS, you are determined that your first "hunch" be right, notwithstanding the evidence. Go back to square one! Share your data and do this properly.

Read wiki on "normal distribution" if you don't believe me.

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I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates - 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM 1574 Views
There are 21 levels, not 100. More later. *NM* - 20/12/2009 07:23:18 PM 603 Views
RJ has said a number of times that the 21 level scale - 20/12/2009 07:35:25 PM 959 Views
Few glaring errors... - 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM 1136 Views
Re: Few glaring errors... - 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM 1087 Views
You don't get it, do you... - 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM 1071 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear? - 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM 944 Views
That only strengthens my point. - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM 1008 Views
No it does not. - 28/12/2009 02:45:42 AM 1051 Views
What you are missing is that - 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM 1006 Views
I'm not missing it at all.. - 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM 1038 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text - 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1001 Views
Not correct... - 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM 1083 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence - 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM 968 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong. - 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM 979 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM 981 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH - 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM 1056 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range... - 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM 1090 Views
Corrections - 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM 1120 Views
No... - 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM 1021 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM* - 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM 714 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers - 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM 952 Views
Perhaps... - 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM 1066 Views
I've always hated bell curves - 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM 1004 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average... - 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM 1028 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve - 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM 866 Views
Why? - 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM 995 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the - 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM 904 Views
Always go back to the evidence... - 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM 1058 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this - 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM 939 Views
Name an item you dispute and I will provide the quote.... - 23/12/2009 05:19:49 PM 945 Views
it's addressed below - 23/12/2009 05:23:58 PM 965 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments - 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM 983 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem - 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM 983 Views
Nice! It proves what I've been saying for ages... - 29/12/2009 10:13:41 PM 999 Views
Which is why I contend that they are about 80% of Lanfear - 29/12/2009 10:16:07 PM 989 Views
I wasn't trying to rip him a new one. - 22/12/2009 09:38:43 PM 878 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1033 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... - 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM 1025 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM 1111 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength - 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM 990 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM* - 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM 533 Views
Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent? - 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM 890 Views
It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough... - 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM 998 Views
Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too - 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM 1011 Views
Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM* - 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 570 Views
LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing - 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM 1067 Views
Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength... - 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM 945 Views
The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work - 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM 1120 Views
Beonin's Gateway - 23/12/2009 06:30:25 PM 978 Views
No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect! - 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM 923 Views
Nope, Beonin shouldn't be that strong! - 23/12/2009 06:48:30 PM 908 Views
This is true, however... - 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM 1052 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM 1432 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation - 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM 1069 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule... - 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM 918 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling - 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM 915 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM* - 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM 502 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? - 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM 946 Views
And there you have it...Thank you. - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM 972 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine - 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM 954 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM* - 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM 508 Views
No more than yours is! - 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM 957 Views
That entire passage is in the context of strength... - 23/12/2009 07:55:50 PM 863 Views
You need to re-read some of this stuff - 23/12/2009 11:01:15 PM 1069 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM 970 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM 985 Views
Goodness - 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM 975 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author - 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM 920 Views
Since you love Wiki so much - 31/12/2009 03:55:09 AM 923 Views
No you are not - 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM 990 Views
Dude we're discussion works of fiction - 31/12/2009 04:08:12 AM 1043 Views
Dumb Bell Distribution of Mongoloid Turings - 31/12/2009 04:36:50 AM 1078 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this - 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM 946 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM 972 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM 996 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution - 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM 961 Views
You are the one who is MIS-USING his statement - 31/12/2009 03:44:26 AM 947 Views
- 31/12/2009 03:48:20 AM 1224 Views
The pathos of Darius - 31/12/2009 04:26:15 AM 986 Views
Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) - 29/12/2009 12:46:13 AM 886 Views
Re: Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) - 29/12/2009 04:21:47 PM 971 Views

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