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I disagree Etzel Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM
BS's quotes suggest that there were only SH and Elza involved:

Q. "How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?"
A. "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her."

We don't know how, but apparently SH gave Elza this knowledge, when she was made into his tool.

And:
Q: "You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?"
A: "Shaidar Haran needs a minion to most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done."

If Graendal (or one of Moridin's pets) was there, Elza certainly wouldn't be that essential for SH to getting things done. Graendal could have done everything even better than Elza.
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Elza's Compulsion Sidious - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 2206 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 1129 Views
I disagree Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 1011 Views
except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 952 Views
Well... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1094 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 391 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 342 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 813 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 321 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 743 Views
The question is... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 760 Views
Re: The question is... darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 750 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 846 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 774 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 818 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 792 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 1148 Views
I know... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 985 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 1070 Views
That doesn't prove anything... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 1005 Views
It proves enough for me ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 921 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... Sidious - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 718 Views
not really darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 769 Views
I don't understand your theory Sidious - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 722 Views
It's very simple darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 723 Views
So in other words Sidious - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 843 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct darius_sedai - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 747 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct Sidious - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 773 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 750 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer Sidious - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 798 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 754 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 772 Views
But by this logic... Etzel - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 720 Views
Yes... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 761 Views
While you are right... Etzel - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 750 Views
as we've discussed in another thread darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 1154 Views
I mean... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 796 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 787 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 715 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 337 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 981 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 1015 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 862 Views
I have a hard time... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 849 Views
I agree with you Sidious - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 828 Views
and you may very well be correct darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 1005 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 823 Views
Anything is possible ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 837 Views
who knows darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 801 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... Shishka - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 708 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 895 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 783 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 733 Views
Good point! Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 825 Views
Re: Good point! Shishka - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 721 Views
I agree Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 704 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 783 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 803 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM 768 Views
damn double posting darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 712 Views
As it is often the case... Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 815 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 771 Views
Well... Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 667 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 715 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 828 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 1024 Views
One point darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 893 Views
Re: One point Oberonus - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 836 Views
Elza truly believes that... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 842 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 886 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. Cannoli - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 838 Views
fair enough darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 854 Views
Not quite rAndy aL - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 856 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM 336 Views
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