Active Users:425 Time:16/06/2025 05:29:28 PM
I disagree as usual darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 20/01/2010 07:45:29 PM
Remember, as far as we know BS only has a strength list with 21 levels on it. By all accounts, he doesn't really know HOW MUCH stronger one channeler is than another. As in, he knows channelers are 1 or 2 or 5 levels stronger than other channelers, but he doesn't know whether they're 25% stronger, 50% stronger or 100% stronger.

So, when BS first made the comment about Cyndane being VERY weak, it was because he still didn't have Maria's understanding of the VAST strength gap between Lanfear and Moiraine.

All BS knew, was that the amount of Power that Lanfear lost, was enough to make Moiraine stronger than say Cadsuane.

So, if BS thought Cadsuane was a pretty strong channeler, say close to Forsaken strength, then he would think that for Moiraine to gain so much, and Lanfear to lose so much, would make Cyndane very weak.

As an example, I believe that if Lanfear has 100 strength, then Cadsuane has around 35 and Moiraine has around 30. But if BS had an incorrect understanding of this, he might have thought that if Lanfear is at 100, then Cadsuane is at 80 and Moiraine is at 50. So, for Moiraine to exceed Cadsuane, she might have to go up to 90, a gain of 40 units of strength. If that same amount had to come off of Lanfear, then Cyndane would now be on only 60 strength.

In reality, however, we know that Moiraine doesn't have to gain much to surpass Cadsuane, and therefore Cyndane doesn't have to be much lower than Lanfear to have transferred that portion of her strength to Moiraine.


NS
An Arrival

"A little more care with the other cups," the Green said, unperturbed by all the gaping. "Child?" Moiraine returned to the hearth still staring, and Cadsuane went on. "Meilyn is considerably older. When she and I are gone, that leaves Kerene the strongest." Larelle flinched. Did the woman mean to violate every custom in one go? "Am I disturbing you?" Cadsuane's solicitous tone could not have been more false, and she did not wait for an answer. "Holding our silence about age doesn't keep people from knowing we live longer than they. Phaaw! From Kerene, it's a sharp drop to the next five. Five once this child and the Sanche girl reach their potential. And one of those is as old as I am and in retirement to boot."

Note that Cadsuane is stronger than Kerene and there is a "sharp drop" from Kerene to Moiraine. If Cadsuane is one level above Kerene, Kerene is at least 2 levels above Moiraine or it would not be a "sharp drop" ... if Cadsuane is a 65 and Kerene a 60, then Moiraine couldn't be more than a 50. You would have to take 20 points from Lanfear's 100 to make Moiraine stronger than Cadsuane and that makes Cyndane too weak to be stronger than the other FS women.

Even if Cadsuane is a 45 Moiraine would be maybe a 35 at most meaning you'd still have to take 15 points from Lanfear, which is still too much for Cyndane to be stronger than Graendal without making all the other FS women far too weak!


If Moiraine is 30, and Cadsuane is 40, then you only need to take about 15 from Lanfear to make Moiraine stronger than Cadsuane, and only 10 to make her equal to Cadsuane.

The consensus has always been that the likes of Graendal are significantly weaker than Lanfear. Lanfear is most likely around 20% stronger than Graendal.


that 1. Cadsuane is so weak and 2. that the other FS women are 20% weaker than Lanfear. There is no way that Graendal would have been willing to go toe to toe with Lanfear in tFoH if she were that much weaker. Not to mention a 10 point spread does not equal the evidence from NS on how much stronger Cadsuane is than Moiraine while still leaving room for the "sharp drop" after Kerene.

Here's another NS quote

An Arrival

A number of women were stronger than she, but only one could be as much stronger as this one. Unwillingly, she looked over her shoulder.

But I'm not going to argue in circles with your opinions on OP strength ... it's been beaten to death as it is. Suffice to say I disagree with your assessment of strength
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven. - 20/01/2010 05:12:58 PM 2875 Views
It was discussed - 20/01/2010 05:27:43 PM 1209 Views
Re: It was discussed - 20/01/2010 07:09:01 PM 992 Views
Maybe... - 20/01/2010 07:15:57 PM 930 Views
Re: Maybe... - 20/01/2010 08:53:47 PM 989 Views
Yeah, that would be a possibility! *NM* - 20/01/2010 09:01:26 PM 912 Views
That doesn't really jive with Aran'gar though - 20/01/2010 09:03:35 PM 930 Views
But... - 20/01/2010 09:11:47 PM 903 Views
I think it's pretty obvious that pretty much any man is going to be - 20/01/2010 09:41:40 PM 855 Views
The idea behind this theory is... - 21/01/2010 07:15:19 AM 1045 Views
Maybe there is a difference between male souls and female souls ... - 20/01/2010 09:35:57 PM 932 Views
Plausible - 20/01/2010 09:45:21 PM 1030 Views
Actually, I didn't mean to imply that my idea of female strength is related to body size ... - 20/01/2010 10:10:48 PM 908 Views
LOL ... I hear ya on that - 20/01/2010 10:17:02 PM 965 Views
I'm so pleased this theory is false! - 12/12/2010 05:00:06 PM 827 Views
people didn't like it when I proposed it - 20/01/2010 05:31:18 PM 1175 Views
Thanks. - 20/01/2010 08:36:58 PM 1045 Views
I don't like the idea that she was healed by a woman - 20/01/2010 05:48:19 PM 993 Views
I agree, and it seems unlikely that a new "better" method - 20/01/2010 06:07:04 PM 907 Views
It's NOT due to Stilling or Healing and it's NOT due to Cyndane's weaker body... - 20/01/2010 06:46:08 PM 1033 Views
I think Moiraine's gaining strength seems a little too LotR. - 20/01/2010 06:55:34 PM 938 Views
I also like that theory - 20/01/2010 07:14:20 PM 967 Views
I think BS's error regarding Cyndane's strength can also be explained by this theory... - 20/01/2010 07:17:59 PM 933 Views
Yes perhaps - 20/01/2010 07:25:06 PM 959 Views
Cadsuane is considerably stronger than Moiraine - 20/01/2010 07:31:42 PM 940 Views
Nope... - 20/01/2010 07:38:55 PM 924 Views
I disagree as usual - 20/01/2010 07:45:29 PM 840 Views
We don't know the magnitude of what Aes Sedai consider a significant strength difference... - 20/01/2010 07:54:38 PM 915 Views
You are comparing Male and female strength here - 20/01/2010 08:18:45 PM 967 Views
Why do you misquote Moiraine? - 20/01/2010 08:39:55 PM 935 Views
Cadsuane isn't too strong - 21/01/2010 04:19:41 AM 947 Views
Actually... - 21/01/2010 05:57:43 AM 945 Views
Re: Actually... - 21/01/2010 12:31:53 PM 957 Views
Sorry, that was the Glossary... - 21/01/2010 08:07:56 PM 841 Views
- 22/01/2010 11:05:23 AM 1014 Views
So Glossary or character? - 22/01/2010 10:22:15 PM 717 Views
Re: Actually... - 12/12/2010 04:42:22 PM 956 Views
Re: I think BS's error regarding Cyndane's strength can also be explained by this theory... - 20/01/2010 07:43:28 PM 936 Views
Agree with both your comments... - 20/01/2010 07:46:07 PM 932 Views
Re: Agree with both your comments... - 20/01/2010 08:24:16 PM 986 Views
But seriously... - 21/01/2010 12:14:16 PM 826 Views
Re: But seriously... - 21/01/2010 12:34:18 PM 1005 Views
I don't think it has to be so unique... - 21/01/2010 01:13:00 PM 955 Views
Re: I don't think it has to be so unique... - 21/01/2010 04:49:42 PM 955 Views
Also would explain the question of why Moiraine left the angreal on the wagon instead of using it... - 21/01/2010 02:30:46 PM 940 Views
I think it makes more sense... - 21/01/2010 02:34:30 PM 957 Views
Lanfear would have been toast if Moiraine had the angreal, plus foreknowledge of the confrontation.. - 21/01/2010 02:38:57 PM 939 Views
In her letter to Thom - 21/01/2010 02:55:32 PM 952 Views
One other tiny thing - 21/01/2010 03:18:03 PM 892 Views
Yes, and that is often overlooked - 21/01/2010 04:48:08 PM 839 Views
That's my interpretation, also ... - 21/01/2010 04:00:35 PM 816 Views
Nods in agreement - 21/01/2010 06:24:59 PM 976 Views
I think the "bubble of hope" was simply ... - 21/01/2010 07:08:44 PM 766 Views
Agreed *NM* - 21/01/2010 11:38:43 PM 543 Views
No, I don't think so - 21/01/2010 04:43:53 PM 1010 Views
I always figured Lanfear bargained away some power to escape the Finns - 20/01/2010 07:37:31 PM 931 Views
But... - 20/01/2010 07:50:14 PM 975 Views
Re: My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven. - 20/01/2010 07:51:38 PM 1192 Views
That idea has also been disproven ... - 20/01/2010 08:19:22 PM 1052 Views
Agreed... - 20/01/2010 08:36:47 PM 821 Views
Yeah ... - 20/01/2010 08:43:24 PM 968 Views
The closest I ever saw was the "Lightfriend/Purple Ajah" theory - 20/01/2010 08:46:20 PM 1207 Views
Yeah, the Verin revelation was cool... - 20/01/2010 08:48:53 PM 922 Views
Re: That idea has also been disproven ... - 21/01/2010 05:12:45 PM 901 Views
I think it may be more simple than it seems. - 21/01/2010 04:15:05 PM 1028 Views
Doesn't fit with BS's words - 21/01/2010 04:27:43 PM 851 Views
Also ... - 21/01/2010 04:32:58 PM 822 Views
I don't think BS words or Cyndane's comments really prove anything. - 21/01/2010 04:42:59 PM 959 Views
BS says that Cyndane is truly weaker. So, this theory is out. *NM* - 21/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 586 Views
Re: BS says that Cyndane is truly weaker. So, this theory is out. - 21/01/2010 04:49:09 PM 938 Views
Well, actually - 21/01/2010 04:54:17 PM 864 Views
Re: Well, actually - 21/01/2010 05:11:10 PM 872 Views
The wording is absolutely unambiguous, but I suppose one can argue everything. *NM* - 21/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 608 Views
Re: The wording is absolutely unambiguous, but I suppose one can argue everything. - 21/01/2010 06:07:09 PM 1203 Views
I agree - 21/01/2010 06:23:34 PM 948 Views
Re: I agree - 21/01/2010 07:59:36 PM 943 Views
Re: I agree - 22/01/2010 07:23:37 AM 856 Views
Re: I agree - 22/01/2010 11:11:55 AM 1030 Views
I think... - 21/01/2010 06:46:57 PM 895 Views
Re: I think... - 21/01/2010 06:58:49 PM 788 Views
You are right... - 21/01/2010 07:12:47 PM 893 Views
Re: You are right... - 21/01/2010 07:21:00 PM 995 Views
Anyone who thinks she's hiding her strength is wrong - 21/01/2010 08:09:42 PM 1164 Views
Indeed, it's pretty idiotic. *NM* - 21/01/2010 08:19:53 PM 490 Views
Dude... - 21/01/2010 08:51:08 PM 935 Views
Re: Dude... - 22/01/2010 11:14:08 AM 968 Views
Re: Dude... - 22/01/2010 10:21:15 PM 1106 Views
Meh - 21/01/2010 11:19:16 PM 797 Views
Re: Meh - 22/01/2010 11:15:20 AM 939 Views
Re: Meh - 22/01/2010 03:09:10 PM 887 Views
Re: Meh - 22/01/2010 04:15:51 PM 904 Views
actually if one really wants to figure out what happened to Cyndane - 21/01/2010 07:00:33 PM 1084 Views
Dumb question, but do transmigrated souls need to re-reach their full potential? - 21/01/2010 06:19:57 PM 935 Views
It seems like they start out as powerful as they were, but I don't think it's ever been stated *NM* - 21/01/2010 06:44:45 PM 579 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 21/01/2010 07:03:13 PM 502 Views
That's what I thought. *NM* - 21/01/2010 10:05:38 PM 525 Views

Reply to Message