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This brings up a very intersting question... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that I'm more strongly weighted towards Graendal, but I edited my original before you read it, I think:

Anyway, I'm strongly in favor of Graendal, but I just thought I'd throw Moghedien out there since, given what we know of Power Levels, it would be consistent with Moghedien being seen as the weakest to get the reaction from Asmodean she would have (ie: "You?" as in disbelief and scorn mixed together. Then "No!" As he is pulled into T'A'R or balefired).


Being....Is Moghedien a Dreamer? Walking around in Tel'aran'rhiod is one thing....Dreamwalking is a total other. Can Moghedien go to the in between place (looks like a starry sky) and walk around? Can she enter another's dreams. Does she have dreams which fortell the future?

If anything...I think this is the one Dreaming-ish type ability that Lanfear had over Moghedien. We actually see that Lanfear was able to enter into Rand's dreams. She subsequently pulled him into the dreamworld, but she was able to get him and pull him in. For the life of me, I don't remember Moghedien being able to do that.

But you bring up a very good question. If someone who is dreaming into TAR , can they open up a gateway into the real world? If so, can they channel out through that gateway into the real world?

I'm going to go with "no" to both questions. We know from Moghedian's own words that the rules of what happens & what can be done in the Dreamworld are a bit different from those who dream their way there and who are there in the flesh.

So lets say that someone is there in the flesh. They open up a gateway to the real world, and attempt to toss a fireball or whatever through. Will it make it? I'm going to go with yes. Because in this instance, the channeling is as a product of the channeler's ability & the one power (which is constant through both reality & dreamworld). If they dreamed up a rock and threw it at someone through the gateway...would it make it? No. Althrough the rock is a product of a person's will, the rock itself only exists inside the dreamworld. [note: this can go into a very good debate if you want...I have a counter-example in my head]

So lets say that someone dreams into TAR . Can they open up a gateway to the real world? Don't know. We've never even seen someone in TAR make a gateway (as there is no need). To make a gateway, the channeler needs to know the place that they are (physically)....for a man...to fold the pattern & drill a hole....for a woman, to make a singularity where one place in the pattern is alike to another. Neither of those will work in the dreamworld, as TAR exists as the place between and connecting every reality. We have seen two major examples of a person entering the dreamworld in the flesh & exiting out. We have never seen a dream-self making a gateway into reality for a flesh person. I don't think that it can be done.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1721 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 732 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 1030 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 594 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 954 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 633 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 672 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 412 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 764 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 739 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 923 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 710 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 934 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 697 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 801 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 418 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 727 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 718 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 639 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 718 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 769 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 669 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 883 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 794 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 630 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 395 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 543 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 414 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 786 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 1048 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 837 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 952 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 770 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 917 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 923 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 796 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 795 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 449 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 647 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 784 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 803 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 754 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 757 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 726 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 737 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 712 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 776 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 691 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 388 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 816 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 648 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 361 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 816 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 713 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 880 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 760 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 925 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 752 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 758 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 690 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 695 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 781 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 645 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 922 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 840 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 756 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 784 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 785 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 804 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 719 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 670 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 653 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 765 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 685 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 906 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 641 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 717 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 695 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 787 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 961 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 868 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 735 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 393 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 763 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 753 Views

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