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She very well... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM
could be dead. From the way that the book reads at face value, she is dead. However I am not convinced. Why? There's an old saying that you can never be too sure that someone's dead unless you see a body.

This plays true for pretty much every show that I've seen, or book that I've read. Many of the Forsaken that we know are dead, we've seen them die.

Moiraine actually balefires Be'lal.
What was left of Ishmael's corpse after Rand killed him was in the Heart of the Stone.
Nynaeve sees Rand balefire Rhavin.
Graendal actually kills Asmodean in the hallway in the palace in Camelyn.
Moiraine actually pulls the angreal out of Lanfear's hands and tumbles through the Finn doorway.
Cadsuane actually identifies the burned body of "a rebel Asha'man" who we know is Osan'gar/Aginor.
Min actually witnesses Rand balefire Semirhage.

The only exceptions to this are the apparent death of Sammael and Graendal. There is a much better case for Sammael being dead, as Rand was within eyeshot of where his death took place. He looked at him...looked away for a heartbeat...and looked back. There was no physical means of escape for Sammael (unless the guy is Usane Bolt with manuvering skills like Darren Sproles), and Rand specifically didn't feel him channel saidin . So unless Sammael busted out a random weave of the True Source & Gateway-ed out of there in a heartbeat...Sammael is toast.

As for Graendal...the non-presense of the Compulsion weave/residue is just not enough evidence for dead for me. No first had account of actually seeing her go all "black to white" balefire-y...no body...no tangible event to point to. Just Nynaeve's testimony that there is no compulsion weaves there anymore...and that the guy was obviously not "compulsed" since he wasn't a slobbering, shell of a man. Let us remember that Graendal is superior in her ability to use Compulsion. She can do it so that the guy would have no side effects. And lets be honest...Nynaeve's ability to Delve may be awsome, but she can't read residues like Aviendha.

Is Graendal dead? I'm not sure...but since its near the end of the series, I'm gonna say yes. Would I be suprised if she just appeared in the next book? Not in the least.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 2000 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 869 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 1332 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 726 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 1375 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 768 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 908 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 545 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 1063 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 1047 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 1211 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 962 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 1232 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 940 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 1049 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 568 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 1097 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 976 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 945 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 956 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 989 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 947 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 1193 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 1056 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 878 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 537 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 692 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 550 Views
The lead up was clumsy because her death scene was rather forced. - 09/02/2010 11:11:21 PM 1150 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 1050 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 1330 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 1114 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 1232 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 1027 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 1160 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 1158 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 1043 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 1065 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 575 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 892 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 1057 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 1096 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 998 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 1026 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 1026 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 991 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 992 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 1031 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 950 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 516 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 1073 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 925 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 512 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 1126 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 992 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 1160 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 1007 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 1190 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 992 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 1031 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 961 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 917 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 1072 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 890 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 1198 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 1091 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 1019 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 1076 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 1036 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 1079 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 959 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 941 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 922 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 1040 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 927 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 1167 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 935 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 965 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 968 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 1089 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 1252 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 1153 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 1006 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 528 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 1028 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 984 Views

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