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I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. Tom Send a noteboard - 22/04/2010 01:17:22 AM
It was unnecessary to the book, all around. We got the idea about the "alienness" of Solaris without the extended descriptions. Lem could have even just talked about the cloud types without going into such detail...

The real story there (as evidenced by both movies) is the attempt at interaction and understanding, and the questions about people raised. Can we ever really love anyone else? Don't we really just love people for the way they make us feel, and the ideas and perceptions that we superimpose upon them in our mind? It's a very old notion, but in this story there is added depth because the "person" IS just the aggregate of our perception.

The other question is whether there is a motive for the appearance of the people. Did Solaris just scan the people the way they've been scanning Solaris? Was it trying to say something about our entire approach to it? Was it a more chemical or automatic biological reaction by Solaris but not indicative of sentience? Do we not understand Solaris because we don't truly understand ourselves yet?

The real brilliance of Solaris is that it leaves a huge question mark on existence, understanding and identity without attempting to really provide any answer.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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Sci-Fi Book Club: SOLARIS by Stanislaw Lem Jacob - 19/04/2010 05:50:45 PM 2106 Views
Roll-Call: Have you read it? Are you reading it? Like it: Yes/NO? *NM* Jacob - 19/04/2010 05:52:00 PM 758 Views
I read it back in January. Tom - 19/04/2010 06:23:29 PM 1385 Views
I read it years ago, and liked it. *NM* Legolas - 19/04/2010 06:41:36 PM 710 Views
I just finished it. Rebekah - 19/04/2010 06:54:49 PM 1365 Views
Well, to be fair, Jacob - 20/04/2010 08:12:17 PM 1311 Views
Heh. Rebekah - 21/04/2010 08:31:51 AM 1520 Views
Re: Well, to be fair, Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:06:06 PM 1243 Views
That was how I felt too. Tashmere - 20/04/2010 11:39:15 PM 1103 Views
I read it 3 years ago, and liked it. Linda - 19/04/2010 06:58:37 PM 1660 Views
Yes, I read it. Must be something like... eh. it was before the clooney horror movie came out? *NM* jh - 19/04/2010 07:23:15 PM 762 Views
I read it, and liked it. wahooka - 19/04/2010 07:33:16 PM 1376 Views
I plan to Camilla - 19/04/2010 07:41:21 PM 1493 Views
I might re-read it in a few days Larry - 19/04/2010 09:11:35 PM 1299 Views
I'm currently reading it Mark - 20/04/2010 10:00:05 AM 1543 Views
That has always bothered me too. Jacob - 20/04/2010 08:20:56 PM 1202 Views
I am with you on that. It may not be rational or my reasons have to do with vanity Tashmere - 20/04/2010 11:18:53 PM 1132 Views
Re: When you look through Lem's page on Solaris covers, that one is the least interesting. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 10:01:50 AM 1242 Views
Indeed Camilla - 11/05/2010 03:02:26 PM 1226 Views
It was a while since I've read it Ellestra - 22/04/2010 05:33:44 AM 1204 Views
I have started reading it Camilla - 11/05/2010 11:10:53 AM 1164 Views
Translation: Jacob - 19/04/2010 05:54:57 PM 1434 Views
I read it in Russian, which was very close to the original. Tom - 19/04/2010 06:25:00 PM 1420 Views
I'm not sure now, I think I read it in Dutch. Legolas - 19/04/2010 06:43:30 PM 1334 Views
English translation by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox (1970). Rebekah - 19/04/2010 06:56:54 PM 1305 Views
Translation of a translation, actually. *NM* jh - 19/04/2010 07:22:18 PM 690 Views
Yes, I did read Jake's intro piece there. *NM* Rebekah - 19/04/2010 07:23:44 PM 693 Views
I figured you were not accurate enough. jh - 19/04/2010 07:26:54 PM 1298 Views
Pffft. Accuracy is for nerds. Rebekah - 19/04/2010 07:31:52 PM 1383 Views
That was the one I read. Tashmere - 20/04/2010 01:43:01 AM 1539 Views
Read a swedish translation back then. jh - 19/04/2010 07:28:14 PM 1201 Views
Yes, the version I read was translated from polish. All the names were intact from the original *NM* Dragonsworn - 20/04/2010 12:17:42 AM 760 Views
I read it in Czech wahooka - 19/04/2010 07:40:05 PM 1555 Views
I also read a Swedish translation. Linda - 19/04/2010 07:41:31 PM 1764 Views
1970 translation from French to English by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox everynametaken - 20/04/2010 02:20:42 AM 1418 Views
I have a different opinion on this. Jacob - 20/04/2010 08:17:06 PM 1316 Views
I've read it in Polish Ellestra - 22/04/2010 05:32:33 AM 1131 Views
Re: So it's flat and boring? Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:50:38 PM 1280 Views
Re: Does anyone know why the Polish publishers haven't commissioned another translation? Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 10:04:38 AM 1276 Views
Rights issues, I beieve Larry - 24/04/2010 10:48:53 AM 1315 Views
So 'we' have read the novel in 6 different languages. Jacob - 27/04/2010 09:20:02 PM 1168 Views
I read the English from French translation Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:10:42 PM 1129 Views
This was my general experience as well. Jacob - 17/05/2010 06:53:58 PM 1180 Views
So. Uh. The chick's name was Rheya in the book I read. Not in other translations? Rebekah - 19/04/2010 07:42:16 PM 1316 Views
Her name in the original is Harey, it got changed to Rheya somewhere along the way of the wahooka - 19/04/2010 07:49:33 PM 1309 Views
In Russian it was just Hari, or, more precisely, Хари. *NM* Tom - 19/04/2010 10:28:49 PM 675 Views
I haven't looked into the reasons yet, outside of what would seem obvious, Jacob - 19/04/2010 09:26:11 PM 1311 Views
Re: I think the translators just thought Harey wasn't immediately accessible as a feminine name. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 09:59:17 AM 1410 Views
That is what I assumed as well. Jacob - 26/04/2010 09:40:45 PM 1204 Views
I probably got more out of it than I first thought. Tashmere - 20/04/2010 11:37:52 PM 1123 Views
Re: I do that too! Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:51:39 PM 1157 Views
It is certainly a book that makes you think... Jacob - 26/04/2010 09:46:31 PM 1155 Views
Literature vs. Genre Fiction Jacob - 21/04/2010 02:33:21 PM 1339 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction lyringlas - 21/04/2010 08:44:24 PM 1327 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:19:31 PM 1168 Views
Re: Panorphaeon - 21/04/2010 09:09:02 PM 1282 Views
How do you know Solaris was an advanced intelligence? Tom - 22/04/2010 01:20:35 AM 1201 Views
Fair enough. Panorphaeon - 22/04/2010 09:04:58 PM 1268 Views
But I think that is Lem's point. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:20:18 AM 1258 Views
Good point Tom. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:14:23 AM 1147 Views
It's definitely literature Tom - 22/04/2010 01:19:34 AM 1115 Views
You might be winning me over to your thoughts here. Jacob - 26/04/2010 09:42:33 PM 1099 Views
In all fairness to my opponents, Solaris is one of my strongest cases. Tom - 26/04/2010 10:16:20 PM 1069 Views
As long as you realize... Legolas - 26/04/2010 10:26:00 PM 1128 Views
This is why I sort of float around on this issue. Jacob - 27/04/2010 05:49:39 PM 1218 Views
Re: This is why I sort of float around on this issue. Camilla - 13/05/2010 10:15:38 AM 1207 Views
Very well put. Jacob - 17/05/2010 06:51:27 PM 1079 Views
Re: Very well put. Camilla - 17/05/2010 06:53:13 PM 1203 Views
This book is definitely literature. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 02:59:48 AM 1256 Views
Re: This discussion gives me hives. *NM* Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:52:09 PM 643 Views
Understandable. Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:31:08 PM 1126 Views
Hmmm Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:18:42 PM 1222 Views
What didn't you enjoy? Jacob - 21/04/2010 09:47:06 PM 1120 Views
I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. Tom - 22/04/2010 01:17:22 AM 1068 Views
This was what I disliked too Ellestra - 22/04/2010 05:46:05 AM 1286 Views
Re: I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:33:14 AM 1148 Views
Re: I found it made this stark contrast with his descriptions of his own, more human environment. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 09:56:40 AM 1372 Views
That is an interesting take. Jacob - 27/04/2010 05:53:23 PM 1208 Views
I didn't really find anything difficult about it. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:38:48 AM 1228 Views
The only thing that bothered me... Jacob - 03/05/2010 07:06:42 PM 1336 Views
So, is there really anything to discuss about the story itself? Larry - 22/04/2010 08:55:03 AM 1291 Views
Apparently not. Tom - 22/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 1331 Views
True Larry - 22/04/2010 09:29:53 PM 1152 Views
Point of fact, Jacob - 23/04/2010 02:53:47 PM 1198 Views
Perhaps it's time for a self-reevaluation then Larry - 24/04/2010 10:45:44 AM 1556 Views
They never claimed to have a monopoly on guiding the discussions. I am just happy they are starting Tashmere - 25/04/2010 05:51:01 PM 1163 Views
Thank you for telling me how I should prioritize my life, Larry. Jacob - 26/04/2010 04:54:01 PM 1360 Views
At least I am not as quick to repeat the same excuses Larry - 26/04/2010 05:13:08 PM 1525 Views
I was originally gonna reply to your previous post, then decided not to. Guess I will now. Legolas - 26/04/2010 05:42:15 PM 1367 Views
Thank you. Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:41:17 PM 1309 Views
Well, when my sleeping is screwed up, interpretations are going to be wonky, it seems Larry - 27/04/2010 06:21:57 PM 1265 Views
One point... Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:34:02 PM 1188 Views
Posting while irritated and about to crash does little good, it seems Larry - 27/04/2010 06:20:19 PM 1270 Views
The delay to the review is my fault. I've got a mostly finished one. I'm just not happy with it. Rebekah - 27/04/2010 07:19:35 PM 1229 Views
It wasn't the review I was irritated about, but thanks for doing it Larry - 27/04/2010 07:39:08 PM 1155 Views
Ah. OK. Rebekah - 27/04/2010 07:47:09 PM 1296 Views
Thanks Larry - 27/04/2010 07:58:54 PM 1175 Views
I'm a bit ambivalent on the merits of this approach of yours. Legolas - 26/04/2010 05:32:19 PM 1135 Views
You highlight my only frustration with the thread. Tom - 26/04/2010 05:48:01 PM 1489 Views
I am mostly just trying the approach out as something a little bit different. Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:23:12 PM 1237 Views
Re: So what do you think about any of those things? Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 08:30:55 PM 1150 Views
I've posted my thoughts on most of those issues in various places in this discussion. Tom - 24/04/2010 05:02:44 AM 1334 Views
Re: I think I'd just like for you to be more proactive and Start A Thread. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 09:50:26 AM 1225 Views
I was sort of being lazy. I'll do so now. *NM* Tom - 25/04/2010 03:20:12 PM 649 Views
A question about Lem. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:49:57 AM 1165 Views
I've only read one other book by him, The Cyberiad Larry - 23/04/2010 04:03:19 AM 1281 Views
Re: A question about Lem. Ellestra - 23/04/2010 07:26:18 PM 1298 Views
Thanks. everynametaken - 24/04/2010 06:42:05 AM 1287 Views
Yes Camilla - 24/04/2010 02:43:17 PM 1257 Views
My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem everynametaken - 23/04/2010 02:50:10 AM 1529 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:49:04 PM 1424 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:35:48 PM 1317 Views
I came away with the same message you did on the first point. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 04:46:09 PM 1135 Views
Re: My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:31:32 PM 1291 Views
Re: So I have no team spirit and should be lynched. Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:41:48 PM 1177 Views
I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 04:27:34 AM 1149 Views
Solaris was, I hope, better than Avatar. Tom - 25/04/2010 04:54:12 AM 1128 Views
Re: I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight. Ellestra - 25/04/2010 01:52:19 PM 1188 Views
It had more to do with recognizing mankind's tendency to imposes their ideas on other cultures. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 05:35:25 PM 1218 Views
Misplaced answer . *NM* Tashmere - 25/04/2010 04:40:27 PM 550 Views
On identity and communication: do we love only ourselves? Tom - 25/04/2010 03:35:34 PM 1210 Views
I did spend a lot of the book speculating on what the planet was trying to do with those supressed Tashmere - 25/04/2010 05:05:38 PM 1263 Views
The argument: (From the text and some thoughts) Jacob - 27/04/2010 06:22:34 PM 1134 Views
Yes Camilla - 12/05/2010 10:10:30 PM 1294 Views
That is a great idea... Jacob - 17/05/2010 06:58:48 PM 1209 Views
Re: That is a great idea... Camilla - 17/05/2010 07:02:44 PM 1243 Views
That settles it. I am going to have to reread it. Tashmere - 13/05/2010 12:23:14 AM 1164 Views
It is interesting you should say that. Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:56:26 PM 1418 Views
That is the second time this week that I have heard something about Derrida. Now I am going to have Tashmere - 13/05/2010 12:02:56 AM 1299 Views
Derrida is great. Camilla - 13/05/2010 10:06:49 AM 1327 Views
Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? Tom - 25/04/2010 03:40:57 PM 1164 Views
I can't decide. Rebekah - 25/04/2010 03:54:39 PM 1306 Views
An interesting point to consider... everynametaken - 25/04/2010 10:41:17 PM 1311 Views
Re: I can't decide. Camilla - 12/05/2010 10:05:21 PM 1099 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? everynametaken - 25/04/2010 10:31:58 PM 1296 Views
Ooohhhh. I like that theory. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 11:32:15 PM 1272 Views
Does it make a difference? Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:29:44 PM 1130 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:57:05 PM 1295 Views
What do you think the biggest message of the book is? Tom - 25/04/2010 03:47:03 PM 1233 Views
Re: Does he let go of her? How independant is she of him? Danae al'Thor - 25/04/2010 04:07:33 PM 1359 Views
That's an interesting observation. Tom - 26/04/2010 10:23:28 PM 1161 Views
Re: I was telling Tashmere... Danae al'Thor - 11/05/2010 11:05:09 AM 1293 Views
Re: What do you think the biggest message of the book is? everynametaken - 25/04/2010 10:16:16 PM 1204 Views
Communication with the entirely other Camilla - 12/05/2010 10:01:37 PM 1232 Views
Did anyone else do any wondering what their own visitors would take the form of if they were there? Tashmere - 26/04/2010 11:31:27 PM 1138 Views
Actually, no. It was obvious to me. *NM* Tom - 26/04/2010 11:41:22 PM 544 Views
In a way yes. Jacob - 27/04/2010 06:33:43 PM 1238 Views
My father, perhaps. Panorphaeon - 27/04/2010 08:55:18 PM 1133 Views
Ha. Jacob - 27/04/2010 09:16:56 PM 1167 Views
Re: You know, the more I think about it, the more surprised I am everyone only seemed to have one. Danae al'Thor - 10/05/2010 10:08:23 PM 1192 Views
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