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So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM
I am growing tired of this. Shortly after the films started coming out it became fashionable in circles of self-styled intellectuals to fall out of love with Tolkien. Of course they are free to do that, but don't present it as an objective truth or a sign of excellent taste. It makes me somewhat nauseous.

I have long been planning a proper long post on this tendency, but I never seem to find the time. I am sure it will come one of these days. For now, though, this will have to do:

Piffle and poppycock.

Edit: I realise that I appear to confirm precisely what the man said in the blog, but I think you know me well enough to realise it is simply time constraint.


I still think there are some valid points that are raised, both in the essay and elsewhere. No fiction should be sacred, but instead tested. As long as such works pass their tests, they endure. There are certainly elements in Tolkien's fiction that I think should be scrutinized more closely, but that process is not to necessarily validate or invalidate what he wrote, but to see how the Text still functions a half-century or more after its initial publication.
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1912 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1519 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1287 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1321 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1392 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1360 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1402 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1402 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1188 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1270 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1362 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1139 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1376 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1354 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1385 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1307 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 551 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1289 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1188 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1348 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1365 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 1094 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1136 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 1097 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1220 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1143 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1350 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 652 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1158 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1139 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1120 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1158 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1186 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1222 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1123 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1258 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1214 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1119 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1226 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1197 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1136 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1129 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1256 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1234 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1183 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1353 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 592 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1142 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1260 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1233 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1385 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1230 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1273 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1325 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1261 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1258 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1322 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1194 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1103 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1177 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1498 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1298 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1255 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1140 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1109 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 569 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1502 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1621 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1301 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1298 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1323 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1377 Views

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