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Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM
I don't remember much of it (my fatal flaw in these conversations ) but the jist was that, yes, these other women are all "Strong" in their relationships...

but BEFORE they were strong, they were weak (physically or otherwise) until they were "Saved" by a male vampire. So the basic idea was that these women were only portrayed as strong after they'd been saved by their men and given their place...by men.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1767 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1346 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1139 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1171 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1243 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1168 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1254 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1223 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1049 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1097 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1175 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 992 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1198 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 1074 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 516 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 510 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1194 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1204 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1130 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 486 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1149 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1018 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1194 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1208 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 929 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 987 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 951 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1078 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1004 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1170 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 589 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1017 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 957 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 967 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1012 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1048 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1083 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 985 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1114 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1073 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 988 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1091 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1052 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 979 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 970 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1092 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1096 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1039 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1189 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 515 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 974 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1117 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1085 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1202 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1080 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1134 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1167 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1060 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 1083 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1113 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1167 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1054 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 963 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1028 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1341 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1122 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1088 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 998 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 967 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 504 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1367 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1447 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1126 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1118 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1128 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1210 Views
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