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Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM
I don't remember much of it (my fatal flaw in these conversations ) but the jist was that, yes, these other women are all "Strong" in their relationships...

but BEFORE they were strong, they were weak (physically or otherwise) until they were "Saved" by a male vampire. So the basic idea was that these women were only portrayed as strong after they'd been saved by their men and given their place...by men.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1915 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1520 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1288 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1321 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1392 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1360 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1403 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1402 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1189 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1272 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1365 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1141 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1377 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 1266 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 586 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 571 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1354 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1387 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1308 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 552 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1290 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1188 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1349 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1366 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 1095 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1136 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 1099 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1220 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1143 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1351 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 653 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1159 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1139 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1120 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1160 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1187 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1223 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1124 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1259 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1215 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1120 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1228 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1198 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1138 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1129 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1257 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1235 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1184 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1355 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 593 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1142 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1260 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1234 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1386 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1231 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1275 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1329 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1262 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 1249 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1259 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1323 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1195 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1104 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1179 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1498 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1299 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1255 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1141 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1110 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 570 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1503 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1622 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1302 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1300 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1324 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1378 Views
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