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This. *NM* Dan Send a noteboard - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM
A friend of mine, Paul Smith, wrote this essay earlier today in response to an earlier essay of mine on genre sacred cows and discussion of such. Since he has a few links to related discussions, I suggest you just click on the link and read his arguments.


I read his books as a kid and then moved on. I remember liking them but I never had a desire to learn Elven languages or dress up as Gollum (sp) for Halloween and I never felt the need to put him on a pedestal of any sort even though I can definitely appreciate the effort he put into his books and their importance in the history of the fantasy genre. I respect Tolkien but I get seriously annoyed be his fans at times when they turn him into some kind of flawless artist of pen and paper. Of course, just as dumb are people who want to overly criticize his flaws in some attempt to show how awesome their skills at critiquing literature are.
This message last edited by Dan on 30/07/2010 at 07:43:39 PM
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1899 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1497 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1273 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1298 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1377 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1340 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1377 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1379 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1171 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1251 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1339 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1117 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1358 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1331 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1371 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1271 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 544 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1274 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1169 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1329 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1333 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 1061 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1119 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 1079 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1198 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1127 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1334 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 642 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1138 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1119 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1102 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1139 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1172 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1207 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1106 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1240 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1196 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1101 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1203 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1177 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1119 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1112 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1240 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1217 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1165 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1333 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 584 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1118 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1243 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1216 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1365 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1212 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1253 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1309 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1245 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1241 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1299 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1176 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1090 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1158 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1480 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1271 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1235 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1120 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1092 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 558 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1486 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1601 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1285 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1281 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1289 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1360 Views

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