We also get major development in the Rita-plot. Malfoy is talking to her, then Hermione's moment of epiphany which is very packed with clues despite leaving us hanging.
Yeah, I like how she uses her hands to mimic the things she's thinking about as she comes to the realization. And how Harry and Ron are still clueless.
Yes. It is a neat detail.
I suppose that is why this is the book where it stops being a children's series as far as I am concerned. Yes, it still has many of the elements, but it is bloody scary and it no longer has all the easy morals. The house elf issue becomes very complicated (with the slaves not wanting to be freed), unlike in book 2, and Cedric dies. Right in front of us.
Agreed. Rather appropriately, in the chapter that sees Voldemort return for real at last. From here on out it'll be teenager books more than children's books. Works out nearly for those who were ten or so around the time GoF came out, but not so much for young children nowadays who want to read the series start to finish aged ten, or less... then again, as Anthony Horowitz proves on a regular basis, children really can take some pretty horrific stuff if you do it right.
That is true.
"Kill the spare" (that's what he says, yes? it's "kill the second one" in Dutch) is perhaps even more chilling than the killing itself. Cedric Diggory is a massively talented and promising young wizard, but for Voldemort he's just some random body getting in his way. Showing someone getting killed is dark enough stuff; showing someone getting killed with the killer not even giving a damn is a fair bit darker still.
I know! It is quite startling. There is no reason for his death. It is all about evil, callous, bad evil.
It's more than that: Cedric's death is so sudden. I really, really like this about Rowling. When people die (Cedric, Sirius, Dumbledore…) it happens in an instant. There is no slow motion moment in which you have time to digest it. It is done and it is over. Like blowing out a candle. I like it. It is a strange piece of … realism? in a magical world.
Yeah. And most of those deaths don't happen in a heroic, glorified way either. Dumbledore's death at least wasn't senseless in the sense that it was necessary to put Snape in a position from which to strike when the time was right, but it's far from heroic or glorious. There will be others who do go out with a bang in book seven, but for the most part, credit to Rowling for how she avoids the typical fantasy trap of having people die in exaggeratedly glorious ways.
Indeed.
Plot-wise, we are told of ``the steps I took long ago, to guard myself against mortal death''. It is interesting that he adds ``mortal'' to ``death''. Is it a reference to him dying, but not dying?
That is an odd choice of words, yes... makes sense.
It is striking. I have been reading up on spiritualism lately for my thesis, and they use the same terminology to distinguish between death and the death of the soul. They keep saying things like ``the dead are not dead''.
It is clear that we are supposed to think Snape is the most faithful servant (certainly when coupled with the Hogwarts references -- Karkaroff just does not fit the bill. I remember even after the book was out and they had read the whole, people kept arguing that Snape was the ``most faithful'' servant.
Heh. It's true we only really got certainty - logical certainty, anyway, which lots of people ignored, but still - that Snape was good at the climax of HBP. But making that argument is rather silly, because in the light of the discussions with Wormtail, in the first chapter and now here, surely it has to be Barty Junior.
Actually, the main part of these arguments were after HBP I think. I considered it obvious that Dumbledore had asked him to kill him, of course , but others (who shall remain unnamed) didn't agree.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Four Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
16/08/2010 09:28:48 AM
- 3902 Views
Chapters 1-3: A different beginning
16/08/2010 09:30:26 AM
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Early characters
16/08/2010 09:32:12 AM
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Re: Early characters
16/08/2010 11:02:23 AM
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Early plotting.
16/08/2010 09:32:52 AM
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Re: Early plotting.
16/08/2010 11:02:09 AM
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It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:38:14 AM
- 1846 Views
Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:47:16 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:16:16 PM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:36:30 PM
- 1747 Views
Re: Early plotting.
17/08/2010 01:15:43 AM
- 1716 Views
Any other comments/observations
16/08/2010 09:33:34 AM
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Mob mentality and British euroscepticism.
16/08/2010 10:37:10 AM
- 1940 Views
people in groups and baffling violence. And the godawful recaps
16/08/2010 11:03:09 AM
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Yeah, I agree about the recaps, they're pointless at this point. *NM*
16/08/2010 11:17:37 AM
- 1003 Views
Good news! HP really caught on after this book and so the last books don't have a recap! *NM*
16/08/2010 03:27:24 PM
- 974 Views
Chapters 4-6 - The Weasleys
16/08/2010 09:33:57 AM
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Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 08:22:33 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 11:07:43 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:18:30 PM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:24:41 PM
- 1754 Views
Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:44:19 PM
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Re: Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:47:29 PM
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Oh, I can think of a few more things that will prove relevant. But that's for tomorrow. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:51:50 PM
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And arguably another one of those fun names with a hidden meaning...
17/08/2010 07:47:43 PM
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Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 08:23:53 AM
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Re: Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 11:10:22 AM
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The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:29:50 PM
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Re: The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:38:09 PM
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I thought that might be it. Yeah, different names in the Dutch translation then. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:40:45 PM
- 917 Views
Any other comments/observations.
17/08/2010 08:24:20 AM
- 1803 Views
Chapters 7-9 - The Quidditch World Cup and Death Eaters
16/08/2010 09:34:26 AM
- 1648 Views
Characters: Ministers, Mothers, other important people.
18/08/2010 12:44:16 AM
- 1751 Views
Plotting
18/08/2010 12:44:48 AM
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Other stuff.
18/08/2010 12:45:13 AM
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Krum Catching the Snitch
18/08/2010 02:28:58 AM
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It makes a certain amount of sense, I think...
18/08/2010 01:23:46 PM
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Clothes and other schools
18/08/2010 09:44:02 AM
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There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:37:14 PM
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Re: There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:45:58 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Back to Hogwarts and the Tri-Wizard Tournament. *NM*
16/08/2010 09:34:48 AM
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Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody. *NM*
19/08/2010 11:21:29 AM
- 951 Views
Re: Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody.
19/08/2010 05:23:11 PM
- 1738 Views
Any other comments, observations or revelations? *NM*
19/08/2010 11:23:48 AM
- 935 Views
There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 04:23:16 PM
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Re: There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 05:41:04 PM
- 1822 Views
Chapters 13-15: First lessons, and the arrival of the foreign guests *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:09 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Neville, Moody, first impressions of Karkarov and Maxime *NM*
20/08/2010 11:49:04 AM
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Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 12:59:41 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:10:03 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:20:22 PM
- 1895 Views
Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:33:04 PM
- 1706 Views
Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:36:50 PM
- 1680 Views
Plotting and writing. *NM*
20/08/2010 11:51:43 AM
- 928 Views
Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:04:01 PM
- 1723 Views
Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:55:29 PM
- 1868 Views
Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 02:04:07 PM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
20/08/2010 11:52:05 AM
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Yes. Five things, actually. Magic, Snape, idiocy, apparating while presumed guilty aaand evil films.
20/08/2010 01:05:06 PM
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Trelawney, or how one can be a Seer and not even know it.
20/08/2010 01:46:09 PM
- 1755 Views
Chapters 16-18: The Tri-Wizard Tournament begins *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:31 AM
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Characters: The Champions, Hagrid, Karkarov, and of course Rita Skeeter in person *NM*
21/08/2010 01:10:53 PM
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Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 01:50:12 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:24:02 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:40:39 PM
- 1696 Views
Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:06:43 PM
- 1976 Views
Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:10:53 PM
- 1729 Views
Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:31:49 PM
- 1878 Views
Re: Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:41:44 PM
- 1800 Views
The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:20:18 PM
- 1689 Views
Re: The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:22:26 PM
- 1875 Views
Definitely true
23/08/2010 10:02:46 PM
- 1944 Views
Re: Definitely true
24/08/2010 06:20:53 PM
- 1994 Views
Plotting and writing.
21/08/2010 01:12:24 PM
- 1995 Views
plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole
21/08/2010 01:39:10 PM
- 1743 Views
Other comments, small details you noticed,...? *NM*
21/08/2010 01:12:53 PM
- 931 Views
House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 01:35:38 PM
- 2023 Views
Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:55:10 PM
- 1840 Views
Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:59:55 PM
- 1943 Views
I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:02:47 PM
- 1916 Views
Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:08:40 PM
- 1961 Views
I associate blancmange more with Britain than with anywhere else...
21/08/2010 05:26:17 PM
- 1798 Views
Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:12:54 PM
- 1666 Views
No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:24:50 PM
- 1633 Views
Re: No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:39:06 PM
- 2012 Views
Hermione really comes into her own in this book.
27/08/2010 11:30:38 PM
- 1581 Views
Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:36:20 PM
- 1723 Views
Re: Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:48:19 PM
- 1763 Views
Chapters 19-21: The first task and House-Elves at Hogwarts *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:53 AM
- 931 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Moody, Dobby and Winky,...
23/08/2010 10:40:21 AM
- 1715 Views
The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:07:50 AM
- 1711 Views
Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:35:56 AM
- 1808 Views
Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:44:08 AM
- 1993 Views
Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:19:21 AM
- 1639 Views
Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:56:37 AM
- 1796 Views
Plotting and writing: the first task and other events *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:20 AM
- 942 Views
Good plotting in this section
23/08/2010 11:08:50 AM
- 1802 Views
Anything else you want to comment on? *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:39 AM
- 902 Views
I love that there is a book called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much. *NM*
23/08/2010 11:09:15 AM
- 833 Views
Chapters 22-24: The - rather eventful - Yule Ball *NM*
16/08/2010 09:36:30 AM
- 817 Views
Characters: The Trio, Champions and their dates, Karkarov, Hagrid and Olympe,...
24/08/2010 11:09:33 AM
- 1904 Views
Ron and Hermione, mainly.
24/08/2010 11:47:49 AM
- 1970 Views
Makes sense.
24/08/2010 01:15:37 PM
- 1699 Views
Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 03:53:20 PM
- 1691 Views
Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 05:00:59 PM
- 1791 Views
Plotting and writing: a bit of a lull in the tension, perhaps, but there's still a lot going on. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:11:49 AM
- 991 Views
Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 11:48:30 AM
- 1886 Views
Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 02:18:04 PM
- 1701 Views
Whatever else you want to say about these three chapters. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:12:33 AM
- 989 Views
Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 11:49:16 AM
- 1873 Views
Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 02:27:51 PM
- 1755 Views
Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 04:15:15 PM
- 1822 Views
Ron's lasso comment is brilliant. Absolute genius.
24/08/2010 02:23:37 PM
- 1758 Views
Lasso comment?
24/08/2010 04:20:35 PM
- 1766 Views
When discussing methods to separate girls from their gang.
24/08/2010 04:27:47 PM
- 1768 Views
Ah. Hehe. Yes.
24/08/2010 04:30:34 PM
- 1850 Views
It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:45:34 PM
- 1914 Views
Re: It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:48:50 PM
- 1793 Views
Holy crap.
25/08/2010 02:44:57 PM
- 1714 Views
Yeah, I don't know if the Google pictures are entirely representative...
25/08/2010 03:06:25 PM
- 1852 Views
Chapters 25-27: The second task and Padfoot's return
16/08/2010 09:36:55 AM
- 1747 Views
Characters: The Trio, Krum, Fleur, Sirius,... *NM*
25/08/2010 11:18:49 AM
- 883 Views
Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius.
25/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
- 1674 Views
I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:41:43 PM
- 1911 Views
Re: I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:45:30 PM
- 1703 Views
Agreed. Snape is one of the most fascinating characters I have ever read
25/08/2010 05:57:12 PM
- 1782 Views
Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 10:54:11 AM
- 1607 Views
Re: Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 11:21:59 AM
- 1729 Views
Plotting and writing: clues, red herrings and recapitulation *NM*
25/08/2010 11:19:47 AM
- 925 Views
Merpeople and the second task.
25/08/2010 11:34:40 AM
- 1792 Views
And something else I never understood about the second task
25/08/2010 02:32:51 PM
- 1791 Views
That's a good point, yeah...
25/08/2010 03:07:30 PM
- 1678 Views
Maybe they should have had a magical big screen projection of what was going on in the lake lol
25/08/2010 03:57:48 PM
- 1733 Views
Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:23:30 PM
- 1738 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:40:39 PM
- 1785 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:42:52 PM
- 1683 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM
- 1696 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:17:36 AM
- 1842 Views
Marauder's Map.
05/09/2010 05:27:17 AM
- 1734 Views
Other comments. *NM*
25/08/2010 11:20:11 AM
- 908 Views
Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:24:26 PM
- 1798 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:36:29 PM
- 1752 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:42:20 PM
- 1887 Views
Chapters 28-30: Moving towards the climax *NM*
16/08/2010 09:37:22 AM
- 857 Views
Characters: The Trio, Krum, Karkarov, the Crouch family,... *NM*
26/08/2010 12:15:59 PM
- 947 Views
Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville
26/08/2010 02:48:04 PM
- 1754 Views
Plotting and writing: increasing signs of danger, and revelations about the past. *NM*
26/08/2010 12:16:50 PM
- 909 Views
Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 02:50:29 PM
- 1765 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM
- 1970 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:51:32 PM
- 1800 Views
Chapters 31-33: The third task
16/08/2010 09:38:01 AM
- 1695 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Voldemort, Wormtail,,... *NM*
27/08/2010 01:32:11 PM
- 952 Views
Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 03:50:03 PM
- 1659 Views
Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:09:48 PM
- 1641 Views
Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM
- 1716 Views
Plotting and writing: thrilling action, but also a fair bit of infodump/flashback. *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:13 PM
- 916 Views
Stuff happens.
27/08/2010 03:50:33 PM
- 1699 Views
Riddle Family.
05/09/2010 05:39:29 AM
- 1709 Views
Anything else to add? *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:39 PM
- 899 Views
Chapters 34-37: The climax and the aftermath *NM*
16/08/2010 09:38:22 AM
- 897 Views
Characters: Well, pretty much all of them, I guess. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:04:41 AM
- 912 Views
Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
28/08/2010 11:57:25 AM
- 1778 Views
Plotting and writing: tying up, explanations and setting up the future books. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:05:33 AM
- 898 Views
Revelations and then some
28/08/2010 12:02:36 PM
- 1730 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
28/08/2010 11:06:03 AM
- 930 Views
Two questions and one other thing.
28/08/2010 12:03:14 PM
- 1842 Views
The book as a whole: overall thoughts, comments and obversations
16/08/2010 09:39:24 AM
- 1760 Views
What do/did you think of Rowling's writing in this book?
16/08/2010 09:40:03 AM
- 1778 Views
I think she has more room to display her talent in this book.
28/08/2010 11:27:20 AM
- 1843 Views
Suggestions for the re-read.
16/08/2010 09:41:01 AM
- 1902 Views
Is it possible / easy to make the post an Announcement while it's ongoing?
17/08/2010 03:08:31 PM
- 1738 Views
When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 11:09:07 AM
- 2004 Views
Re: When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 12:05:31 PM
- 1983 Views