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Along these lines Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM
The one I get stuck on is the Who vs Whom question. Is there an easy way to remember?


I'm also amazed that people can't seem to keep whose and who's straight. Who's = who is/who has. I think people see the apostrophe and think it's possessive. It might not be intuitive, but it's a fairly simple rule to remember.

If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 1125 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 317 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 292 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 286 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 308 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 332 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 160 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 261 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 413 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 265 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 264 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 269 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 255 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 321 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 260 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 302 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 139 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 319 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 244 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 306 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 447 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 259 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 267 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 506 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 514 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 257 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 282 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 245 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 250 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 307 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 490 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 281 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 290 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 252 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 490 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 245 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 255 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 409 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 323 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 383 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 310 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 520 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 318 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 508 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 474 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 484 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 299 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 301 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 245 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 284 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 476 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 278 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 297 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 245 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 271 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 487 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 559 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 394 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 472 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 265 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 122 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 273 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 263 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 251 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 446 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 128 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 259 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 277 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 478 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 372 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 289 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 383 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 131 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 258 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 256 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 265 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 267 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 254 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 260 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 272 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 458 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 458 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 383 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 375 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 269 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 460 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 240 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 268 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 245 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 255 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 127 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9409 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 117 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 446 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 285 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 477 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 378 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 378 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 509 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 250 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 289 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 249 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 463 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 268 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 274 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 122 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 467 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 398 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 271 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 259 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 309 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 117 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 267 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 558 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 282 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 284 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 289 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 230 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 385 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 397 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 260 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 464 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 525 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 422 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 448 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 388 Views
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