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This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM
I am sure it can be quickly over and done with.

ADMIT IT! :P

I still contend the same basic principle applies here as with the other issue: A preposition is part of a prepositional PHRASE; it automatically has an object, and the object should be there somewhere. It needn't come after the preposition, I suppose, so there's no INHERENT reason the preposition can't end the sentence (or clause, for that matter) but it should be there in some location, and immediately after the preposition is usually (though not always) the most logical place. And, of course, since it's the object of a phrase, it should be in the objective case if it requires declension.

Yes, I realize "it" is duly present as the object of "with" in your statement, so I guess you're OK--BUT I'M WATCHING YOU! :P

Whatever happened to the BSG, by the way...?
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 1152 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 346 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 324 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 314 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 333 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 364 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 175 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 275 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 444 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 289 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 293 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 282 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 266 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 349 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 273 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 329 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 154 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 343 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 256 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 330 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 477 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 273 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 295 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 534 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 545 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 286 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 303 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 255 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 261 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 338 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 520 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 304 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 317 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 272 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 513 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 262 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 286 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 435 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 350 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 409 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 333 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 552 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 348 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 534 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 501 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 507 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 325 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 330 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 259 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 297 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 505 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 306 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 326 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 268 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 284 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 518 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 591 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 429 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 499 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 286 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 137 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 298 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 289 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 285 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 469 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 138 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 271 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 300 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 510 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 406 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 320 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 415 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 140 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 292 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 285 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 289 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 297 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 280 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 286 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 299 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 483 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 488 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 407 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 404 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 295 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 486 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 273 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 294 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 271 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 283 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 138 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9436 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 132 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 472 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 311 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 507 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 405 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 407 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 545 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 276 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 318 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 275 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 487 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 301 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 299 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 132 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 495 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 428 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 294 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 282 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 334 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 132 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 293 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 585 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 318 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 296 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 307 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 243 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 409 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 421 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 284 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 487 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 553 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 453 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 470 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 419 Views
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