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One additional thought. everynametaken Send a noteboard - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM
you should also tackle the English (and, in fairness, French) habit of answering a question, like, say, "Who wants a cookie?" with "Me!". It's just as ungrammatical, but I've never heard anyone say otherwise in either English or French, so I rather doubt you'd get as much agreement if you tried correcting that one.

Another case of the same thing, again both in English and French, is to use "me" instead of "I" as a predicate ("It's me.";), though there in English at least I have heard the alternative, even if it sounds old-fashioned now.


You are assuming the answer to the question who wants a cookie is a statement when in it can be an imperative command to "give it to me."
English speaking children just beginning too speak understandable sentences often answer such questions in phrases such as "want cookie" or "give (me) cookie" and later add on the "me" to the command to give when they learn to self-identify as a "me". The answer "me" is deeply ingrained from childhood.

"I" is simply not a used response to a question. "I do" would be entirely acceptable but the word "me" in response to questions like this one encompass a lot of hidden material. Saying "me" in this instance can encompass an entire arrangement of response such as "I do, give me a cookie.", "I want a cookie, give me one.", etc.

All that can be said by simply cutting the excess and unnecessary words out - something learned way back in childhood before we even knew the excess words.

Just another angle to think about.
But wine was the great assassin of both tradition and propriety...
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 1067 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 275 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 250 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 235 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 268 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 293 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 141 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 242 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 368 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 236 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 225 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 251 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 238 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 278 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 243 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 256 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 121 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 282 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 225 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 268 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 404 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 242 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 226 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 458 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 466 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 223 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 243 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 225 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 233 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 263 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 445 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 240 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 247 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 208 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 447 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 226 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 213 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 367 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 282 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 344 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 276 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 483 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 272 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 466 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 429 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 433 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 257 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 265 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 228 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 264 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 434 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 237 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 255 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 210 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 249 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 444 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 479 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 343 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 419 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 219 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 103 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 224 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 223 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 212 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 403 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 109 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 239 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 226 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 433 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 327 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 242 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 333 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 118 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 222 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 209 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 226 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 222 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 208 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 218 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 231 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 408 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 413 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 339 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 329 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 232 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 420 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 205 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 223 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 200 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 212 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 106 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9366 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 100 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 404 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 242 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 437 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 336 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 338 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 412 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 215 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 251 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 214 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 424 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 227 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 231 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 104 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 418 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 358 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 214 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 205 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 262 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 100 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 230 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 507 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 206 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 265 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 244 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 212 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 350 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 350 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 214 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 423 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 479 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 383 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 408 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 350 Views
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