Active Users:361 Time:11/07/2025 05:51:15 AM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester Send a noteboard - 09/08/2010 01:18:35 PM
The former, one of the reasons I raise incest is it is an example of the states being able to bar marriage between people, hence, arguments revolving around the states having no right to ban marriages are logically flawed. Arguments that the state should not possess that power are another matter, but as is, if someone states that no such right exist, they are overlooking precedent.


Ah, sounds like you are disagreeing on opinion then - around what is actually a right, what it intails and what, if anything, overrides it.

I should imagine we'd agree that 'messes' something might introduce into legislation aren't really good reasons to keep a ban on something. :P


An interesting point in this is that it isn't exactly a ban, just a limit on how far the rights and benefits of marriage should be spread. You can legally have a relationship with as many partners as you like, you're still just going to get the same as a couple do though and the simplest way to do it is to only allow a marriage between two people, since it doesn't involve rewriting a huge volume of laws. Still though, you can be married in religion to multiple partners (people moving to the UK who are married to multiple partners have to nominate one on moving here to be the one who recieves the benefits and rights)

That applies to polygamy pretty often too. Or, say, someone adopting an adolescent then marrying them when they turn 18, pretty foul but I don't think "grooming" can be a blanket reason, since it wouldn't apply to people of the same age (sibs/cousins) in all likelihood. Also, every state has different laws and qualifiers for incest, some allow first cousins. But yes, of course there's the genetic defect thing, but gay unions can't produce kids, so incest unions who agree not too breed would seem equally legit, and again their is an issue, is incest the only situation where a higher-than-average-probability of genetic defects bars marriage, should it be, should others be for that reason, etc.


It is an old charge against polygamy - not sure it holds true in the same way though (since you can have a polygamous relationship, you just can't marry, so a clear difference there) and I'm not sure if it is actually a true issue now or just an old fear?
Most of your argument in there really is down to the fact there is a big grey area around exactly where the cut off points are... but then that exsts everywhere (different countries have different laws, after all). It is about balancing the rights of the people (those of having a relationship of their choice against their right to protection)

I'm slightly lost on what you are arguing with regards to children - same sex couples shouldn't be allowed to marry because there is no risk of children but rather regardless of it. A male-female relationship carries a risk that they will have children - people can lie, doctors can mess up etc.
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
Reply to message
Let's ban all Christian Marriage. Dannymac - 07/08/2010 06:36:13 AM 1644 Views
Nice satire, but it raises another point for me. Helene - 07/08/2010 07:20:49 AM 1042 Views
One small problem... Phelix - 07/08/2010 08:02:34 AM 1068 Views
Re tax. Rebekah - 07/08/2010 08:47:22 AM 1109 Views
That seems sensible to me. SilverWarder - 09/08/2010 08:13:26 PM 966 Views
Not sure what you mean by "demoted." Dannymac - 07/08/2010 03:50:02 PM 1109 Views
Nice. *NM* Camilla - 07/08/2010 08:58:20 AM 619 Views
That would only be appropriate if Christians wanted to ban secular unions of normal people. Cannoli - 07/08/2010 11:51:29 AM 1284 Views
Hey, look! There was a point over there! Dannymac - 07/08/2010 03:46:41 PM 1094 Views
Who else should make those decisions? Cannoli - 07/08/2010 08:00:39 PM 1036 Views
I'd totally... Ectheledhel - 08/08/2010 04:14:15 AM 991 Views
I'd totally... ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:17:30 AM 1148 Views
You'd defend this idiot? *NM* Ectheledhel - 08/08/2010 06:40:34 AM 509 Views
Indeed ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 1079 Views
I used to think Joel was the biggest rambler on this site. I am seriously reconsidering. everynametaken - 08/08/2010 05:24:56 AM 1084 Views
And my assessment of one poster as the most content-poor, non-contributing slug is unchanged Cannoli - 08/08/2010 07:17:02 PM 987 Views
Um, ok. *NM* everynametaken - 10/08/2010 12:48:19 AM 511 Views
*Shakes Head* Dannymac - 08/08/2010 06:23:47 AM 953 Views
I highly doubt Cannoli is "scared" of homosexuals *NM* ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:29:54 AM 545 Views
Perhaps not in the physical sense. Great Lord of Chaos - 08/08/2010 06:35:53 AM 1049 Views
Re: Perhaps not in the physical sense. ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:46:56 AM 1015 Views
Gah! You did that on purpose! Vodalus - 09/08/2010 01:05:13 AM 965 Views
whoops *NM* ßelals Girl - 09/08/2010 02:22:49 AM 466 Views
Re: *Shakes Head* Cannoli - 08/08/2010 07:43:11 PM 1000 Views
I still do not see how you think marriage is a "pointless" institution LadyLorraine - 08/08/2010 08:05:45 PM 1099 Views
No, I was referring to same-sex marriage. Real marriage hardly counts as a novelty. *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 02:28:43 PM 453 Views
This must be the "thought out reaction" I've heard so much about. Dannymac - 08/08/2010 10:45:59 PM 947 Views
You cannot be that stupid. Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:10:55 PM 1222 Views
There's a lot of ridiculous arguments here, but I'll focus on just one of them... Legolas - 11/08/2010 03:38:05 PM 1103 Views
Incorrect. Genders are not treated equally. Dreaded Anomaly - 11/08/2010 07:53:00 PM 1327 Views
all you need is enough support to pass an amendment random thoughts - 08/08/2010 02:46:08 PM 935 Views
A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 08/08/2010 11:51:24 PM 973 Views
And what is wrong with polygamy? *NM* Ectheledhel - 09/08/2010 10:36:53 AM 516 Views
Did I say there was anything? Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:03:10 AM 1089 Views
Plolygamy and incest are not on the same level of bad. Camilla - 09/08/2010 11:00:07 AM 1013 Views
Is that assumption valid? Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:36:26 AM 960 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? Camilla - 09/08/2010 11:46:42 AM 949 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? Isaac - 09/08/2010 12:07:22 PM 1063 Views
Not really snoopcester - 09/08/2010 01:20:46 PM 920 Views
Re: Not really Isaac - 09/08/2010 01:27:04 PM 1054 Views
Re: Not really snoopcester - 09/08/2010 02:14:43 PM 918 Views
Re: Not really Isaac - 09/08/2010 03:06:31 PM 1075 Views
Spoken like someone who does not have to insure an employee's six wives. Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:11:57 PM 1088 Views
... Camilla - 11/08/2010 03:22:50 PM 970 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester - 09/08/2010 11:25:39 AM 996 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:51:50 AM 938 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester - 09/08/2010 01:18:35 PM 1041 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 09/08/2010 02:54:19 PM 1057 Views
Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage LadyLorraine - 09/08/2010 06:13:30 PM 1101 Views
Re: Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage Isaac - 10/08/2010 01:24:06 AM 909 Views
Now I think about it, I'm not sure. Dannymac - 10/08/2010 04:09:43 PM 1037 Views
Re: Now I think about it, I'm not sure. Isaac - 10/08/2010 06:12:39 PM 914 Views
Great post Danny SilverWarder - 09/08/2010 08:22:27 PM 790 Views
It should be noted again... Jeordam - 09/08/2010 08:59:32 PM 1083 Views
and how is it not a right? LadyLorraine - 09/08/2010 09:19:12 PM 959 Views
My definition of rights... Jeordam - 09/08/2010 10:47:16 PM 1082 Views
mmm, but the UN has legally stated marriage as a right. LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 02:52:03 AM 841 Views
+1 Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 03:11:22 AM 1118 Views
Article 16 probably not a great example Isaac - 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM 941 Views
You could just as easily move the emphasis... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 04:08:46 AM 1072 Views
If we need a more specific resolution... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 04:22:12 AM 1253 Views
No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Isaac - 10/08/2010 05:25:57 AM 937 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 03:04:39 PM 1259 Views
That's really a ridiculous stance, you do realize. Legolas - 10/08/2010 03:23:02 PM 894 Views
The point is that marriage IS a right, one which cannot be denied based upon sexual orientation *NM* Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:04:16 PM 723 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Isaac - 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM 1129 Views
It doesn't say a man can only marry a woman or vice versa, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/08/2010 04:24:17 AM 937 Views
It also doesn't say they can Isaac - 10/08/2010 04:41:18 AM 947 Views
You're missing the point. It's not about gay marriage. Legolas - 10/08/2010 11:20:59 AM 941 Views
No, I got that, I'm pointing out how it does so Isaac - 10/08/2010 01:47:00 PM 958 Views
I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 06:09:32 PM 931 Views
Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. Isaac - 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM 865 Views
It's mentioned as a right in some SC decision quoted in that Walker opinion. *NM* Legolas - 10/08/2010 06:51:13 PM 464 Views
To clarify for you SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 05:36:14 AM 880 Views
The UNSC is actually the UN's enforcement body... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:16:31 PM 1315 Views
I'm not sure that I would call the Security Council the 'Enforcement Body' SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 08:43:02 PM 906 Views
The fact that it is capable of authorizing the use of military force makes it an enforcement body Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 10:33:59 PM 1181 Views
Disagree - but it's most a matter of definition there SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 04:31:53 PM 1083 Views
What the UN thinks is *completely* worthless.... Jeordam - 10/08/2010 06:43:15 PM 890 Views
and the Constitution dictates nothing about marriage. *NM* LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 11:46:24 PM 492 Views
That means it is up to the people. And they say "No." *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:13:12 PM 498 Views
No, but it does dictate things about rights and discrimination SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 03:48:02 PM 1129 Views
Why don't YOU back up your assertion that the right to marry exists? *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:16:02 PM 501 Views
The actual ruling on Prop 8 specifices marriage as a freedom, not a right. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/08/2010 12:02:17 AM 1019 Views
Out of curiosity, what would you say to using the Ninth Amendment, possibly in conjunction... Vodalus - 10/08/2010 12:20:19 AM 1099 Views
I agree LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 06:11:19 PM 818 Views
Yeah but this can't be used to prove that it IS a right... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:30:57 PM 1179 Views
Note it all you want... Dannymac - 10/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 810 Views
No, they seek to expand the terms of the partnership. Homosexuals can & do get married normally *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:14:25 PM 513 Views
The best one yet. Camilla - 10/08/2010 07:59:17 PM 1065 Views
Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 08:49:24 PM 934 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane Camilla - 10/08/2010 09:03:11 PM 1041 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 04:35:03 PM 930 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane Camilla - 11/08/2010 04:41:23 PM 1054 Views
Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 05:06:47 PM 1056 Views
Re: Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel Camilla - 11/08/2010 05:09:23 PM 1002 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes