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There is a difference... Dannymac Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM
...between denying gays the capacity to marry and not marrying them yourself. You can no more force a church to marry two homosexuals than you could force one person to agree to marry another.

A church that performs a marriage does more than simply provide a pretty space for a rental fee. It implicitly offers its blessing and its approval of the union. And you cannot force anyone to approve of anything.

Being biased is perfectly legal in the United States so long as it does not intrude on a person's rights. And people do not have the right to force other people to grant approval of their actions, no matter how legally entitled to those actions they are.

For instance. I have the right, legally speaking, to sleep with any consenting adult in my congregation that I so choose. However, despite that right, after discovering the affair, the church would have every right to fire me for it. They could even deny me access to worship there, if they so chose, based on their beliefs.
Eschew Verbosity
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Gay Marriage MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 2058 Views
I disagree on the latter part snoopcester - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1391 Views
I follow your point... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1383 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1411 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1341 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1208 Views
You didn't read my post. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1270 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1346 Views
Um, you're wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1294 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1262 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM 640 Views
You're still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1399 Views
Re: You're still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1251 Views
Again, you are still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1320 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 1145 Views
Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1402 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 667 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 690 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1308 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1306 Views
Also also: Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1289 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1292 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1330 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1213 Views
Also MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1358 Views
And wrong again. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1378 Views
Not so quick! MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1209 Views
Yes, so quick! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 1162 Views
Let's be reasonable here MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1268 Views
Why do you get to judge? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1303 Views
I don't MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 1189 Views
OK. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1296 Views
Re: OK. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1260 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM 1207 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM 1320 Views
Then please stop. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1261 Views
What's wrong with discussion? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1219 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1235 Views
Really? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1269 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1232 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 1128 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1247 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1227 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1323 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1191 Views
You are wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 1060 Views
Really? Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 1115 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1221 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1307 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1309 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1218 Views
Gah. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 1169 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 617 Views
What a mature response. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1378 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1306 Views
Re: Yes. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1248 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1177 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1254 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1291 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 1184 Views
+1 Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 1059 Views
Hehe Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 1106 Views
Um Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1323 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 614 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 672 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 548 Views
It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 1167 Views
Re: It makes no sense MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1241 Views
Re: It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1330 Views
It's not sanctioning anything MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1268 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1250 Views
Nonsense snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1175 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... Kronin al'Sulc - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 1156 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1266 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1194 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1324 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1301 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 446 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1288 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1278 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 616 Views
really? Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 1136 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 1073 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 581 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 1112 Views
Which is interesting Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1092 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 1069 Views
Original poster. *NM* Rebekah - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 642 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 1129 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 1139 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 1041 Views
Ya know?!? Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 1156 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1254 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1279 Views
There is a difference... Dannymac - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1308 Views
No you don't. snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1285 Views
That's another concern Isaac - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1343 Views
Not quite my point snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1214 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1353 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. Legolas - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 1169 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM 1226 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM 1222 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM 1210 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1269 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 1097 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. random thoughts - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 1126 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 1152 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 1162 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1272 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1219 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1321 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 1161 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1272 Views
Of course it would random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1352 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 679 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 659 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1226 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 653 Views
Simples snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1241 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1203 Views
So. snoopcester - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 1088 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad random thoughts - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1599 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny snoopcester - 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM 1429 Views
Agreed *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 535 Views
I love you, Camilla lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 1036 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1235 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 683 Views
Naturally. Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1229 Views
I know I do *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 624 Views
Another thing MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1323 Views
A couple of things SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1221 Views
I disagree MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1352 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1304 Views
there is major flaw in your argument random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1351 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1239 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 1176 Views
One point about Prop. 8 Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1204 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 1133 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1220 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM 1039 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM 1206 Views
there are major flaws in your argument MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1344 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 988 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 574 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 582 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... lyringlas - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1247 Views
I feel your pain *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 661 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1310 Views
100% agreed. LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1350 Views
This. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 492 Views
You are absolutely wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1264 Views
By that token Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1147 Views
My God.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1215 Views
no You are absolutely wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 1144 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1257 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin. Tom - 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM 1178 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. Seriana Sedai - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1346 Views
Fair enough. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1274 Views
Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 1203 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1245 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 1198 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 1032 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1337 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM 673 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM 635 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Sidious - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1418 Views
+1 Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1359 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1286 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 1115 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1287 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 623 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 643 Views
It's not snarky. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1269 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1518 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 1153 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1347 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 1133 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1353 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1236 Views
LOL Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1207 Views
Re: LOL Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 1145 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1211 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 1139 Views
No, marriage started because of property. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1232 Views
So then two things come to mind... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1211 Views
Only two? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1203 Views
Is this the same guy... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 1113 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1184 Views
That's a little difficult to do SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1422 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1254 Views
Oh, I hope not SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1245 Views
I may be wrong Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1231 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 1154 Views
True enough SilverWarder - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1433 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights random thoughts - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1199 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1204 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law random thoughts - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1193 Views
moot, not mute Camilla - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1494 Views
damn random thoughts - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1294 Views
Actually, I agree with that snoopcester - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 1098 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 1098 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 1165 Views
Rights.... Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 1191 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about jh - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1204 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1312 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 675 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1334 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* jh - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 614 Views
Starting again Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1325 Views
Not at all MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1227 Views
Re: Not at all Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 1026 Views
Agreed *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 519 Views
Oh dear Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 1126 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 660 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 1068 Views
I'm curious Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 1183 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 1077 Views
Okay, good. Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1240 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? Dannymac - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1280 Views
very nicely said *NM* random thoughts - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 527 Views
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