Active Users:950 Time:01/02/2026 01:31:45 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Simples snoopcester Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM
I am not sure what you mean by a clear separation of secular marriage and religious marriage. Do you believe that the resistance to gay marriage is purely religious? How would change marriage to create that separation?


No and it would completely undermine one of the most commonly used arguments of those who are opposed for religious reasons - suddenly it wouldn't be something they can claim is related to their religious marriage. It would be something clearly seperate.

You are not considered legally married simply because you stood in front of priest and said some vows and you can easily be married without a priest. I have been married for over a decade now and we never stood in front of a priest. A priest is just one of a number of people who can officiate a state licensed marriage.


I am well aware of that (not the details of your married life, of course, since I couldn't care less) and I have no idea what your point is.

Stopping priest from officiating weddings would infringe on millions of people's rights and accomplish nothing but to convince them that their belief system was being destroyed to accommodate the gay life style and they would be right. (not to mention political impossible) Marriage and religion are both pillars of our social structure so I am not sure how you would accomplish a separation since right now it is really just a symbolic relationship. You may not like the fact they are pillars of our society but you are tilting windmills if you think you can change that.


If you look upwards, you might see my point flying over your head. I suppose you were too busy making things up to notice it though:)
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
Reply to message
Gay Marriage MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 2041 Views
I disagree on the latter part snoopcester - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1370 Views
I follow your point... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1356 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1396 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1324 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1191 Views
You didn't read my post. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1249 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1326 Views
Um, you're wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1274 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1245 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM 633 Views
You're still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1379 Views
Re: You're still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1233 Views
Again, you are still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1297 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 1124 Views
Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1382 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 660 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 683 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1290 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1290 Views
Also also: Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1270 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1273 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1311 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1198 Views
Also MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1343 Views
And wrong again. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1359 Views
Not so quick! MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1195 Views
Yes, so quick! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 1145 Views
Let's be reasonable here MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1251 Views
Why do you get to judge? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1282 Views
I don't MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 1172 Views
OK. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1278 Views
Re: OK. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1242 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM 1188 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM 1298 Views
Then please stop. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1245 Views
What's wrong with discussion? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1201 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1218 Views
Really? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1251 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1214 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 1112 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1233 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1207 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1306 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1174 Views
You are wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 1039 Views
Really? Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 1099 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1204 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1286 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1288 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1194 Views
Gah. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 1153 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 609 Views
What a mature response. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1354 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1282 Views
Re: Yes. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1233 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1157 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1232 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1274 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 1159 Views
+1 Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 1040 Views
Hehe Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 1087 Views
Um Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1302 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 607 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 663 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 541 Views
It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 1150 Views
Re: It makes no sense MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1220 Views
Re: It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1313 Views
It's not sanctioning anything MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1252 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1234 Views
Nonsense snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1158 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... Kronin al'Sulc - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 1135 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1244 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1171 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1309 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1282 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 441 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1267 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1260 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 609 Views
really? Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 1118 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 1051 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 575 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 1092 Views
Which is interesting Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1073 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 1053 Views
Original poster. *NM* Rebekah - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 634 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 1111 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 1123 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 1022 Views
Ya know?!? Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 1140 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1234 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1259 Views
There is a difference... Dannymac - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1289 Views
No you don't. snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1263 Views
That's another concern Isaac - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1324 Views
Not quite my point snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1191 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1331 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. Legolas - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 1152 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM 1202 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM 1208 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM 1186 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1249 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 1083 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. random thoughts - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 1109 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 1133 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 1143 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1257 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1203 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1292 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 1144 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1257 Views
Of course it would random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1330 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 672 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 652 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1210 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 648 Views
Simples snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1225 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1185 Views
So. snoopcester - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 1073 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad random thoughts - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1583 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny snoopcester - 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM 1407 Views
Agreed *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 528 Views
I love you, Camilla lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 1017 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1219 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 677 Views
Naturally. Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1212 Views
I know I do *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 617 Views
Another thing MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1303 Views
A couple of things SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1197 Views
I disagree MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1337 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1283 Views
there is major flaw in your argument random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1331 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1219 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 1151 Views
One point about Prop. 8 Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1186 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 1115 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1203 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM 1021 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM 1187 Views
there are major flaws in your argument MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1333 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 976 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 567 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 571 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... lyringlas - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1227 Views
I feel your pain *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 654 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1294 Views
100% agreed. LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1332 Views
This. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 488 Views
You are absolutely wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1236 Views
By that token Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1132 Views
My God.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1194 Views
no You are absolutely wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 1128 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1236 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin. Tom - 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM 1160 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. Seriana Sedai - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1333 Views
Fair enough. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1260 Views
Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 1185 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1229 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 1176 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 1016 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1321 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM 667 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM 631 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Sidious - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1397 Views
+1 Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1341 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1263 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 1091 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1267 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 616 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 637 Views
It's not snarky. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1243 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1497 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 1138 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1328 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 1116 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1332 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1211 Views
LOL Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1191 Views
Re: LOL Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 1128 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1191 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 1117 Views
No, marriage started because of property. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1210 Views
So then two things come to mind... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1192 Views
Only two? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1185 Views
Is this the same guy... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 1095 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1166 Views
That's a little difficult to do SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1401 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1233 Views
Oh, I hope not SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1222 Views
I may be wrong Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1211 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 1135 Views
True enough SilverWarder - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1414 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights random thoughts - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1179 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1189 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law random thoughts - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1177 Views
moot, not mute Camilla - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1477 Views
damn random thoughts - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1277 Views
Actually, I agree with that snoopcester - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 1079 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 1080 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 1145 Views
Rights.... Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 1169 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about jh - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1183 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1291 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 665 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1312 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* jh - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 606 Views
Starting again Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1309 Views
Not at all MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1208 Views
Re: Not at all Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 1008 Views
Agreed *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 510 Views
Oh dear Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 1105 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 654 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 1046 Views
I'm curious Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 1167 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 1043 Views
Okay, good. Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1223 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? Dannymac - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1261 Views
very nicely said *NM* random thoughts - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 520 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes