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What a mature response. MalkierKnight Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM
Banging of head against wall is now boring.

There's really no point in me replying to you because it's all been said before.

You're wrong about the Bible's stance on sex, your point that churches sanction sin all the time is bizarre, and, as you refuse to consider anything anyone says to you in response I am really not going to waste any more of my time. I'll let the others continue their fun.

Have you ever considered, though, that maybe, just maybe, you've got everything mixed up here?


Yes, I have considered it a lot, actually.

You are the one who refuses to accept that churches might wrongfully discriminate at all.

The real question here is not what churches ought to believe (frankly, I don't care) but what they ought to be allowed to do. I believe that banning gay marriage is discrimination. I believe this because sins are accepted in other parts of christianity and even embraced as something to be dealt with before god.

Some, not all, churches do pass out condoms to young people, in the hopes that they will avoid pregnancy out of wedlock. Is this not a form of sanctioning premarital sex? At least, in the same sense that gay marriage would be?

Some, not all, churches allow divorce. Does this not diminish wedding vows? Which are to be eternal before god. Is this not a form of sanctioning a sin?

If I'm grossly ignoring your points and refusing to listen, please enlighten me. But I would appreciate if you show me how my points are not valid.
You must unlearn what you have learned.
Reply to message
Gay Marriage MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 2015 Views
I disagree on the latter part snoopcester - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1353 Views
I follow your point... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1342 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1377 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1309 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1176 Views
You didn't read my post. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1227 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1302 Views
Um, you're wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1252 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1222 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM 626 Views
You're still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1356 Views
Re: You're still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1208 Views
Again, you are still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1271 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 1106 Views
Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1365 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 654 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 673 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1270 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1268 Views
Also also: Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1252 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1252 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1296 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1179 Views
Also MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1317 Views
And wrong again. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1337 Views
Not so quick! MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1172 Views
Yes, so quick! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 1120 Views
Let's be reasonable here MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1232 Views
Why do you get to judge? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1266 Views
I don't MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 1151 Views
OK. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1261 Views
Re: OK. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1222 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM 1166 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM 1279 Views
Then please stop. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1227 Views
What's wrong with discussion? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1177 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1199 Views
Really? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1233 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1194 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 1082 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1209 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1185 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1284 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1154 Views
You are wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 1016 Views
Really? Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 1080 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1183 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1265 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1267 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1178 Views
Gah. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 1134 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 598 Views
What a mature response. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1335 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1261 Views
Re: Yes. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1203 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1133 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1215 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1257 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 1143 Views
+1 Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 1015 Views
Hehe Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 1064 Views
Um Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1284 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 598 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 650 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 532 Views
It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 1126 Views
Re: It makes no sense MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1202 Views
Re: It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1294 Views
It's not sanctioning anything MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1231 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1209 Views
Nonsense snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1141 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... Kronin al'Sulc - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 1117 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1227 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1153 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1284 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1264 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 433 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1245 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1236 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 597 Views
really? Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 1095 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 1029 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 564 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 1068 Views
Which is interesting Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1051 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 1033 Views
Original poster. *NM* Rebekah - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 626 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 1091 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 1103 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 1002 Views
Ya know?!? Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 1123 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1212 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1239 Views
There is a difference... Dannymac - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1265 Views
No you don't. snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1245 Views
That's another concern Isaac - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1299 Views
Not quite my point snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1169 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1306 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. Legolas - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 1129 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM 1176 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM 1185 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM 1166 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1229 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 1065 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. random thoughts - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 1081 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 1112 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 1118 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1242 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1175 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1265 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 1124 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1236 Views
Of course it would random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1312 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 662 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 642 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1193 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 638 Views
Simples snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1200 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1166 Views
So. snoopcester - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 1049 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad random thoughts - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1561 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny snoopcester - 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM 1380 Views
Agreed *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 519 Views
I love you, Camilla lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 997 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1192 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 667 Views
Naturally. Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1189 Views
I know I do *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 603 Views
Another thing MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1281 Views
A couple of things SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1181 Views
I disagree MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1321 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1266 Views
there is major flaw in your argument random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1309 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1197 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 1130 Views
One point about Prop. 8 Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1164 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 1091 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1185 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM 1000 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM 1165 Views
there are major flaws in your argument MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1311 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 954 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 559 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 560 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... lyringlas - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1207 Views
I feel your pain *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 646 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1266 Views
100% agreed. LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1310 Views
This. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 480 Views
You are absolutely wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1206 Views
By that token Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1120 Views
My God.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1172 Views
no You are absolutely wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 1109 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1212 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin. Tom - 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM 1136 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. Seriana Sedai - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1316 Views
Fair enough. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1241 Views
Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 1157 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1211 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 1160 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 999 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1302 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM 657 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM 622 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Sidious - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1368 Views
+1 Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1316 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1237 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 1067 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1243 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 606 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 629 Views
It's not snarky. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1218 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1476 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 1117 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1306 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 1098 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1301 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1191 Views
LOL Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1168 Views
Re: LOL Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 1113 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1167 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 1093 Views
No, marriage started because of property. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1188 Views
So then two things come to mind... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1171 Views
Only two? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1163 Views
Is this the same guy... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 1073 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1148 Views
That's a little difficult to do SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1374 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1214 Views
Oh, I hope not SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1201 Views
I may be wrong Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1194 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 1113 Views
True enough SilverWarder - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1380 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights random thoughts - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1159 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1169 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law random thoughts - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1157 Views
moot, not mute Camilla - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1450 Views
damn random thoughts - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1255 Views
Actually, I agree with that snoopcester - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 1060 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 1050 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 1117 Views
Rights.... Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 1146 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about jh - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1158 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1272 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 655 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1289 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* jh - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 596 Views
Starting again Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1284 Views
Not at all MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1187 Views
Re: Not at all Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 986 Views
Agreed *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 499 Views
Oh dear Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 1084 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 628 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 1024 Views
I'm curious Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 1145 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 1025 Views
Okay, good. Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1198 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? Dannymac - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1236 Views
very nicely said *NM* random thoughts - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 508 Views
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