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I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM
I think that religious fundamentalism -- either the hard kind, or the soft kind (which we're supposed to pretend is okay) -- is contributing to an environment where people on the sharp end of the judgment stick probably feel burned by it. I can understand being religious and having been brought up with a certain perspective, i.e. gay people existing/scewing/marying is "wrong" and shouldn't be allowed, but like whoever this person is, I don't think this means that we tolerate it.

Don't tolerate intolerance!

Is that a bumper sticker yet, and can I make money off it?

I guess my comment is: if I were gay and wanted to marry, and someone said: "Oh, I'm sorry, but Christ doesn't allow that. I wish he did. But morally, it's wrong." that, to me, would translate exactly to "fuck you".

Free the gays! And the religious!

I recall having this discussion a few times on wotmanias CMB, and stand by my position there: Tolerance includes tolerating intolerance, and if that makes you question some of your bedrock assumptions, maybe it should. It's like free speech; you never hear people demanding "tolerance for ice cream!" or "free the people who don't play loud music after 10PM!" because they're not exactly under assault. Tolerance is Voltaire saying he may not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it. So we have to tolerate bigots, too, or we're just practicing selective bigotry of our own; if the particular part of the populace we choose to hate and/or disenfranchise is an extremely small and unpopular one, that just means we're very SKILLED bigots. You can disagree with them, argue with them, oppose them publicly, "withstand [them] to [their] face" as Paul did when Peter was shunning Gentile Christians, but what you can't do, if you claim tolerance, is muzzle them. The one exception is when they're committing or encouraging violence; obviously your right to be loud and ignorant still ends where the cross ignites on my lawn.
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Love the Sinner - 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM 1408 Views
I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM 972 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations - 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM 886 Views
That is not what I think requires thought - 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM 896 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey - 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM 1038 Views
for ze record - 14/10/2010 02:54:07 AM 904 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM* - 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM 433 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves - 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM 915 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned - 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM 925 Views
Re: I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 06:29:09 PM 903 Views
He was very frank but completely founded - 13/10/2010 04:34:46 PM 1021 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) - 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM 1000 Views
I'm not sure that is true - 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM 885 Views
I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM 1001 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )... - 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM 787 Views
Yes and no - 13/10/2010 06:53:26 PM 1073 Views
Okay, fair enough. *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:48:21 PM 407 Views
I would think... - 14/10/2010 04:35:31 AM 948 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before - 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM 1000 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM 419 Views
I think there's truth in this as well. - 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM 933 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it - 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM 898 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM 957 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM 973 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM 991 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM 1012 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM 1024 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew? - 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM 872 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you? - 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM 1011 Views
I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 03:02:16 PM 970 Views
Re: I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 04:27:25 PM 1014 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM 1041 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying? - 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM 914 Views
Re: You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 08:23:07 PM 937 Views
That seems a little myopic to me. - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM 901 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view - 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM 907 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things - 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM 994 Views
I mostly agree - 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM 1064 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance - 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM 876 Views
I thought I pretty much agreed with you on that point - 14/10/2010 07:44:07 PM 933 Views
Interesting - 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 1242 Views
Sometime rants do work and change people's mind - 13/10/2010 09:23:39 PM 875 Views
and sometoimes they are just rants *NM* - 13/10/2010 10:01:55 PM 371 Views
Okay my response now - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM 961 Views
He becomes what he hates. - 14/10/2010 02:40:19 AM 1119 Views
Good stuff. *NM* - 14/10/2010 02:56:44 AM 391 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM 969 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM 1048 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM 1042 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM 932 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM 998 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM 922 Views
I don't think there is any question... - 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM 934 Views
If I may quibble: - 14/10/2010 05:22:22 AM 789 Views
He's bullying Christians - 14/10/2010 04:47:13 AM 919 Views
I agree - 14/10/2010 04:09:23 PM 997 Views
Two seperate things are mingled here - 14/10/2010 09:50:42 AM 1133 Views

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