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I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM
I think that religious fundamentalism -- either the hard kind, or the soft kind (which we're supposed to pretend is okay) -- is contributing to an environment where people on the sharp end of the judgment stick probably feel burned by it. I can understand being religious and having been brought up with a certain perspective, i.e. gay people existing/scewing/marying is "wrong" and shouldn't be allowed, but like whoever this person is, I don't think this means that we tolerate it.

Don't tolerate intolerance!

Is that a bumper sticker yet, and can I make money off it?

I guess my comment is: if I were gay and wanted to marry, and someone said: "Oh, I'm sorry, but Christ doesn't allow that. I wish he did. But morally, it's wrong." that, to me, would translate exactly to "fuck you".

Free the gays! And the religious!

I recall having this discussion a few times on wotmanias CMB, and stand by my position there: Tolerance includes tolerating intolerance, and if that makes you question some of your bedrock assumptions, maybe it should. It's like free speech; you never hear people demanding "tolerance for ice cream!" or "free the people who don't play loud music after 10PM!" because they're not exactly under assault. Tolerance is Voltaire saying he may not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it. So we have to tolerate bigots, too, or we're just practicing selective bigotry of our own; if the particular part of the populace we choose to hate and/or disenfranchise is an extremely small and unpopular one, that just means we're very SKILLED bigots. You can disagree with them, argue with them, oppose them publicly, "withstand [them] to [their] face" as Paul did when Peter was shunning Gentile Christians, but what you can't do, if you claim tolerance, is muzzle them. The one exception is when they're committing or encouraging violence; obviously your right to be loud and ignorant still ends where the cross ignites on my lawn.
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Love the Sinner - 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM 1411 Views
I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM 974 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations - 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM 889 Views
That is not what I think requires thought - 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM 899 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey - 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM 1040 Views
for ze record - 14/10/2010 02:54:07 AM 906 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM* - 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM 434 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves - 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM 917 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned - 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM 927 Views
Re: I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 06:29:09 PM 905 Views
He was very frank but completely founded - 13/10/2010 04:34:46 PM 1023 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) - 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM 1001 Views
I'm not sure that is true - 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM 888 Views
I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM 1003 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )... - 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM 790 Views
Yes and no - 13/10/2010 06:53:26 PM 1077 Views
Okay, fair enough. *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:48:21 PM 408 Views
I would think... - 14/10/2010 04:35:31 AM 950 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before - 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM 1003 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM 420 Views
I think there's truth in this as well. - 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM 935 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it - 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM 901 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM 959 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM 975 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM 994 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM 1014 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM 1026 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew? - 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM 875 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you? - 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM 1014 Views
I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 03:02:16 PM 972 Views
Re: I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 04:27:25 PM 1016 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM 1045 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying? - 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM 918 Views
Re: You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 08:23:07 PM 939 Views
That seems a little myopic to me. - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM 903 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view - 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM 910 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things - 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM 997 Views
I mostly agree - 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM 1066 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance - 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM 878 Views
I thought I pretty much agreed with you on that point - 14/10/2010 07:44:07 PM 937 Views
Interesting - 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 1246 Views
Sometime rants do work and change people's mind - 13/10/2010 09:23:39 PM 879 Views
and sometoimes they are just rants *NM* - 13/10/2010 10:01:55 PM 371 Views
Okay my response now - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM 965 Views
He becomes what he hates. - 14/10/2010 02:40:19 AM 1119 Views
Good stuff. *NM* - 14/10/2010 02:56:44 AM 392 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM 971 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM 1051 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM 1044 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM 934 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM 1000 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM 925 Views
I don't think there is any question... - 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM 936 Views
If I may quibble: - 14/10/2010 05:22:22 AM 791 Views
He's bullying Christians - 14/10/2010 04:47:13 AM 920 Views
I agree - 14/10/2010 04:09:23 PM 999 Views
Two seperate things are mingled here - 14/10/2010 09:50:42 AM 1135 Views

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