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No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM
Because based on the evidence, a jihadist shooter would have as much a claim to have been influenced by Palin as Loughner has.

Don't you get it? Loughner isn't aligned to Palin's worldview at all, as far as all evidence has been able to establish.

In fact, he is probably closer to Gifford's point of view than Palin's.

Loughner was no more influenced by Palin's "rhetoric" than that guy from the Fort Hood shooting was.

Seriously, we're still doing this? Loughner was more liberal than conservative even though he read Ayn Rand (whose name is born by the new Tea Party Senator from KY), Hitler and Nietzsche (whose heir Hitler claimed, rightly or not, to be) before exercising his Second Amendment rights against one of the most liberal Congressmen in the state that gave us "extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice", all because of his anti-government paranoia. But because he also happened to read Marx he's somehow a liberal despite, lessee... SEVEN examples of conservative beliefs. Does he espouse seven liberal principles? I'll give you hatred of religion, but that's it.

I agree that he's apolitical, but he is closer to the right than the left, and was ripe for all the "Obama's a madrasa trained terrorist born in Kenya, not HI, and must be stopped at any cost to save America" BS constantly spewing from far right demagogues since before he took the Oath of Office. To say Loughner maintained a FB account (much like Palin) and another on MySpace in between buying guns and buying conspiracies but was somehow oblivious to the kind of paranoid militant rhetoric with which he would've been right at home is rather difficult to believe. It hasn't been proven, but stop kidding yourself, man. Again, let's put the safety of our fellow citizens and welfare of our country ahead of partisan loyalty.

Oh, and I happened to be living about 50 miles from Ft. Hood when that shooting occurred, mere months after someone flew a plane into an IRS building 30 miles from me in the other direction, so let's not go there. The former was a right wing fundie who happened to believe the US government at war with the Muslim rather than Christian God, and the other espoused both left and right wing principles but, IMHO, tended to hold more liberal ones. Both believed themselves wrongfully persecuted, but the first has been established to be a religious fanatic and I'm aware of no links between the latter and far left demagoguery (though he's still a liberal guilty of murder in my book, and none of his stated motives justifies that).
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This message last edited by Joel on 20/01/2011 at 03:12:22 AM
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2080 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 933 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1113 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1160 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1101 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1471 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1013 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1041 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1026 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 941 Views
Oh please don't you start to - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 884 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1067 Views
it was used here and nobody commented - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 954 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 998 Views
It's funny you should say that... - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1039 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1017 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1057 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1105 Views
I never said it was. - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1203 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 875 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1021 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1000 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1086 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1118 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1267 Views
That means precisely nothing - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 955 Views
It means everything. - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1214 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 823 Views
There are two points: - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1030 Views
Re: It means everything. - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 853 Views
That's simply illogical. - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1238 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1111 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1055 Views
So I am a little confused on something... - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1102 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1238 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 981 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 994 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1054 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 872 Views
No, they don't - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1067 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1144 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1002 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1036 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1096 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1118 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 966 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 982 Views
There is no point - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1011 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1259 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1276 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1024 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 946 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 970 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 962 Views
That first line is says it all. - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1043 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1152 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1037 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1039 Views
YOU are cherry picking. - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 977 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1249 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1087 Views
Yeah, your first was better - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 902 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1049 Views
And I call bullshit - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1182 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1146 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1030 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1127 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 977 Views
Pretty much. - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1044 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 479 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 448 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 930 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 487 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1123 Views
Took you this long, huh? - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 878 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 911 Views
I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 872 Views
Re: I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1021 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 896 Views
like I said a matter of faith - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 886 Views
I find it interesting... - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1038 Views
I mention her looks solely because... - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 921 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1092 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 905 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 948 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 897 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1011 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 810 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 896 Views
only in your does the connection exisit - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 938 Views
No. - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1017 Views
dude wake up - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1151 Views
So in your opinion... - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 887 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 936 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1230 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1066 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1074 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 532 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 819 Views
You missed the point, obviously. - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 925 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 999 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 850 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 514 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1080 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1106 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1151 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1090 Views

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