Active Users:3178 Time:20/06/2026 04:31:12 AM
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM
Because based on the evidence, a jihadist shooter would have as much a claim to have been influenced by Palin as Loughner has.

Don't you get it? Loughner isn't aligned to Palin's worldview at all, as far as all evidence has been able to establish.

In fact, he is probably closer to Gifford's point of view than Palin's.

Loughner was no more influenced by Palin's "rhetoric" than that guy from the Fort Hood shooting was.

Seriously, we're still doing this? Loughner was more liberal than conservative even though he read Ayn Rand (whose name is born by the new Tea Party Senator from KY), Hitler and Nietzsche (whose heir Hitler claimed, rightly or not, to be) before exercising his Second Amendment rights against one of the most liberal Congressmen in the state that gave us "extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice", all because of his anti-government paranoia. But because he also happened to read Marx he's somehow a liberal despite, lessee... SEVEN examples of conservative beliefs. Does he espouse seven liberal principles? I'll give you hatred of religion, but that's it.

I agree that he's apolitical, but he is closer to the right than the left, and was ripe for all the "Obama's a madrasa trained terrorist born in Kenya, not HI, and must be stopped at any cost to save America" BS constantly spewing from far right demagogues since before he took the Oath of Office. To say Loughner maintained a FB account (much like Palin) and another on MySpace in between buying guns and buying conspiracies but was somehow oblivious to the kind of paranoid militant rhetoric with which he would've been right at home is rather difficult to believe. It hasn't been proven, but stop kidding yourself, man. Again, let's put the safety of our fellow citizens and welfare of our country ahead of partisan loyalty.

Oh, and I happened to be living about 50 miles from Ft. Hood when that shooting occurred, mere months after someone flew a plane into an IRS building 30 miles from me in the other direction, so let's not go there. The former was a right wing fundie who happened to believe the US government at war with the Muslim rather than Christian God, and the other espoused both left and right wing principles but, IMHO, tended to hold more liberal ones. Both believed themselves wrongfully persecuted, but the first has been established to be a religious fanatic and I'm aware of no links between the latter and far left demagoguery (though he's still a liberal guilty of murder in my book, and none of his stated motives justifies that).
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 20/01/2011 at 03:12:22 AM
Reply to message
OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2213 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 1093 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1257 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1295 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1274 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1646 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1170 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1192 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1179 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 1079 Views
Oh please don't you start to - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 1016 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1213 Views
it was used here and nobody commented - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1111 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1140 Views
It's funny you should say that... - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1181 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1164 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1197 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1265 Views
I never said it was. - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1351 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 1023 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1186 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1142 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1230 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1287 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1417 Views
That means precisely nothing - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1114 Views
It means everything. - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1360 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 960 Views
There are two points: - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1183 Views
Re: It means everything. - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 995 Views
That's simply illogical. - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1388 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1255 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1203 Views
So I am a little confused on something... - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1247 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1382 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1114 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1142 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1212 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 1010 Views
No, they don't - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1208 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1313 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1146 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1208 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1288 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1263 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 1090 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1110 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1127 Views
There is no point - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1172 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1417 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1441 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1182 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 1091 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1111 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1097 Views
That first line is says it all. - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1193 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1294 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1192 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1182 Views
YOU are cherry picking. - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1131 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1410 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1231 Views
Yeah, your first was better - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 1069 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1198 Views
And I call bullshit - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1328 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1284 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1174 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1267 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1127 Views
Pretty much. - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1188 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 545 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 514 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 1081 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 556 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1266 Views
Took you this long, huh? - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 1013 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 1049 Views
I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 1012 Views
Re: I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1172 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 1052 Views
like I said a matter of faith - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 1036 Views
I find it interesting... - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1177 Views
I mention her looks solely because... - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 1061 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1239 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 1090 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1107 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 1052 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1151 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 947 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 1047 Views
only in your does the connection exisit - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 1083 Views
No. - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1177 Views
dude wake up - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1289 Views
So in your opinion... - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 1042 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 1088 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1391 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1212 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1216 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 611 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 965 Views
You missed the point, obviously. - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 1072 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1145 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 988 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 576 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1225 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1255 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1312 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1247 Views

Reply to Message