First, NS is always specific in nature, meaning there is always a selection pressure. There has never been a case where natural selection doesn’t involve specific selection. It is intrinsic to NS. Take the guppies experiment without predators. The new selection pressure is now sex. Get rid of sex and the selection pressure might be how fast one can convert nutrients, take that away and there will be something else. There is never a static system (which you seem to imply there is) where specific selection is not on-going.
Second, (I use this phrase loosely) we can not know the mind of nature. To expand on that, it is impossible to know what selection pressure will be greatest each season. We can only evaluate specific traits on a per period basis under certain conditions. We can then use those results to make assumptions on the whole and provide evidence for theories. This is the very nature of science. By your line of reasoning all of science is tautology due to the nature of the universe.
Second, (I use this phrase loosely) we can not know the mind of nature. To expand on that, it is impossible to know what selection pressure will be greatest each season. We can only evaluate specific traits on a per period basis under certain conditions. We can then use those results to make assumptions on the whole and provide evidence for theories. This is the very nature of science. By your line of reasoning all of science is tautology due to the nature of the universe.
Both your objections are true, and I agree. If NS is explained in this way it is not a tautology.
But this line of reasoning is also anticipated by the author who's views I'm not testing.
His responce was that this line of argument leads to a definition of 'fitness' (though you did not use this word here, so maybe I should say 'selection criteria'
, that is essentially so complicated that it should be cassified as metaphysical.Point is: there is always a selection criteria as you point out. Once you take away one selection criteria there will be another and another and another, but it is very hard, if not impossible to predict beforhand which criteria will have the upper hand once the most obvious ones are taken away.
He compares it to astrology where the stars always predict the future. If not the stars, the season, if not the season, the positions of the planets, if not the planets, the moons of the planets, or the cyclical period of the sun or whatever.
How to choose from all of these? Take a single example and find the cause.
How to choose on what basis nature selects today? Take a slingle example and you'll find the cause.
It is fundamentally untestable when applied to nature as a whole since the criteria for selections are explained to be "very complicated" and "virtually inpredictable" and hence meta (beond) phycical.
Natural selection
- 06/08/2011 03:51:26 PM
1328 Views
selection for suitability
- 06/08/2011 04:18:51 PM
965 Views
Thanks for your responce
- 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM
1095 Views
- 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM
1095 Views
I can't speak for LadyLorraine and won't try, but here's how I see it:
- 06/08/2011 06:49:49 PM
1050 Views
Just a question
- 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM
1053 Views
Yes it can
- 06/08/2011 07:41:59 PM
887 Views
But how?
- 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM
1109 Views
Re: Just a question
- 06/08/2011 07:49:21 PM
1131 Views
I'm not sure I understand you
- 06/08/2011 08:20:44 PM
1042 Views
All tautologies are truisms, but not all truisms are tautologies.
- 06/08/2011 09:38:12 PM
1096 Views
Then it is still a tautology
- 06/08/2011 09:45:33 PM
1109 Views
You can know it's beneifical to a particular individual, but it's harder to say for populations.
- 06/08/2011 10:18:16 PM
1152 Views
Maybe...
- 07/08/2011 01:55:54 PM
1012 Views
I'm more inclined toward his logic, but possibly toward your conclusions.
- 09/08/2011 12:45:46 AM
1086 Views
we can't really know ahead of time what makes a specific trait benefical in that environment
- 09/08/2011 06:16:02 PM
1124 Views
As I understand it
- 06/08/2011 06:04:44 PM
961 Views
Better...
- 06/08/2011 06:36:38 PM
959 Views
Did you perhaps mean "beneficial in the environment" rather than "beneficial to the environment"?
- 06/08/2011 06:34:44 PM
1073 Views
yes. I did not really phrase that very clearly. *NM*
- 09/08/2011 06:14:11 PM
444 Views
No biggy; from what Bram said, I underestimated how well you were understood anyway.
- 09/08/2011 06:45:16 PM
999 Views
Hmmm... there's some truth to that
- 06/08/2011 06:36:35 PM
1057 Views
The complexity of the problem makes it all but impossible to falsify...
- 06/08/2011 08:26:06 PM
1064 Views
The questions go deeper
- 06/08/2011 08:38:31 PM
1091 Views
Re: The questions go deeper
- 06/08/2011 09:10:32 PM
1064 Views
I think I know why you don't understand my question.
- 06/08/2011 09:38:41 PM
1103 Views
How many equation's has Moraine screwed up?
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:45:36 PM
456 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:45:36 PM
456 Views
100% I think Moriaine is a very beneficial trait that contributes a lot to the RAFO pool
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:46:54 PM
493 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:46:54 PM
493 Views
Re: Natural selection
- 07/08/2011 03:00:30 AM
1073 Views
Thanks a lot
- 07/08/2011 01:38:39 PM
1193 Views
2 things
- 07/08/2011 04:00:35 PM
944 Views
Re: 2 things
- 07/08/2011 04:33:00 PM
1156 Views
Re: 2 things
- 07/08/2011 05:48:26 PM
997 Views
My best guess
- 07/08/2011 06:00:28 PM
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Re: My best guess
- 07/08/2011 06:37:58 PM
964 Views
Re: My best guess
- 07/08/2011 06:47:26 PM
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