First, NS is always specific in nature, meaning there is always a selection pressure. There has never been a case where natural selection doesn’t involve specific selection. It is intrinsic to NS. Take the guppies experiment without predators. The new selection pressure is now sex. Get rid of sex and the selection pressure might be how fast one can convert nutrients, take that away and there will be something else. There is never a static system (which you seem to imply there is) where specific selection is not on-going.
Second, (I use this phrase loosely) we can not know the mind of nature. To expand on that, it is impossible to know what selection pressure will be greatest each season. We can only evaluate specific traits on a per period basis under certain conditions. We can then use those results to make assumptions on the whole and provide evidence for theories. This is the very nature of science. By your line of reasoning all of science is tautology due to the nature of the universe.
Second, (I use this phrase loosely) we can not know the mind of nature. To expand on that, it is impossible to know what selection pressure will be greatest each season. We can only evaluate specific traits on a per period basis under certain conditions. We can then use those results to make assumptions on the whole and provide evidence for theories. This is the very nature of science. By your line of reasoning all of science is tautology due to the nature of the universe.
Both your objections are true, and I agree. If NS is explained in this way it is not a tautology.
But this line of reasoning is also anticipated by the author who's views I'm not testing.
His responce was that this line of argument leads to a definition of 'fitness' (though you did not use this word here, so maybe I should say 'selection criteria'
, that is essentially so complicated that it should be cassified as metaphysical.Point is: there is always a selection criteria as you point out. Once you take away one selection criteria there will be another and another and another, but it is very hard, if not impossible to predict beforhand which criteria will have the upper hand once the most obvious ones are taken away.
He compares it to astrology where the stars always predict the future. If not the stars, the season, if not the season, the positions of the planets, if not the planets, the moons of the planets, or the cyclical period of the sun or whatever.
How to choose from all of these? Take a single example and find the cause.
How to choose on what basis nature selects today? Take a slingle example and you'll find the cause.
It is fundamentally untestable when applied to nature as a whole since the criteria for selections are explained to be "very complicated" and "virtually inpredictable" and hence meta (beond) phycical.
Natural selection
- 06/08/2011 03:51:26 PM
1298 Views
selection for suitability
- 06/08/2011 04:18:51 PM
938 Views
Thanks for your responce
- 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM
1061 Views
- 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM
1061 Views
I can't speak for LadyLorraine and won't try, but here's how I see it:
- 06/08/2011 06:49:49 PM
1021 Views
Just a question
- 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM
1024 Views
Yes it can
- 06/08/2011 07:41:59 PM
867 Views
But how?
- 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM
1083 Views
Re: Just a question
- 06/08/2011 07:49:21 PM
1108 Views
I'm not sure I understand you
- 06/08/2011 08:20:44 PM
1016 Views
All tautologies are truisms, but not all truisms are tautologies.
- 06/08/2011 09:38:12 PM
1045 Views
Then it is still a tautology
- 06/08/2011 09:45:33 PM
1077 Views
You can know it's beneifical to a particular individual, but it's harder to say for populations.
- 06/08/2011 10:18:16 PM
1121 Views
Maybe...
- 07/08/2011 01:55:54 PM
990 Views
I'm more inclined toward his logic, but possibly toward your conclusions.
- 09/08/2011 12:45:46 AM
1062 Views
we can't really know ahead of time what makes a specific trait benefical in that environment
- 09/08/2011 06:16:02 PM
1102 Views
As I understand it
- 06/08/2011 06:04:44 PM
941 Views
Better...
- 06/08/2011 06:36:38 PM
929 Views
Did you perhaps mean "beneficial in the environment" rather than "beneficial to the environment"?
- 06/08/2011 06:34:44 PM
1049 Views
yes. I did not really phrase that very clearly. *NM*
- 09/08/2011 06:14:11 PM
431 Views
No biggy; from what Bram said, I underestimated how well you were understood anyway.
- 09/08/2011 06:45:16 PM
976 Views
Hmmm... there's some truth to that
- 06/08/2011 06:36:35 PM
1037 Views
The complexity of the problem makes it all but impossible to falsify...
- 06/08/2011 08:26:06 PM
1028 Views
The questions go deeper
- 06/08/2011 08:38:31 PM
1065 Views
Re: The questions go deeper
- 06/08/2011 09:10:32 PM
1039 Views
I think I know why you don't understand my question.
- 06/08/2011 09:38:41 PM
1074 Views
How many equation's has Moraine screwed up?
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:45:36 PM
442 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:45:36 PM
442 Views
100% I think Moriaine is a very beneficial trait that contributes a lot to the RAFO pool
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:46:54 PM
477 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2011 09:46:54 PM
477 Views
Re: Natural selection
- 07/08/2011 03:00:30 AM
1040 Views
Thanks a lot
- 07/08/2011 01:38:39 PM
1163 Views
2 things
- 07/08/2011 04:00:35 PM
918 Views
Re: 2 things
- 07/08/2011 04:33:00 PM
1138 Views
Re: 2 things
- 07/08/2011 05:48:26 PM
965 Views
My best guess
- 07/08/2011 06:00:28 PM
1037 Views
Re: My best guess
- 07/08/2011 06:37:58 PM
934 Views
Re: My best guess
- 07/08/2011 06:47:26 PM
1089 Views
