Last night, I said I thought it was simultaneous possession in my initial viewings. I now think that Tate’s right arm came off slightly on the way down, and so his control wasn’t established again until after it went back on (sixth picture down). He did have his hands on ball right away, and he did have possession when they contacted the ground. If his right hand had not come off for a split second on the fall, I think it is simultaneous possession by rule, regardless of what happened on the ground twisting around. There is no such thing as a player having more control than the other based on having it near his chest. It was a bang-bang play.
emphasis mine, for full effect. your own "proof" does not believe simultaneous possession because TATE LET GO OF THE BALL. simultaneous catch is defined by player control, not possession. try again....
"Again" as in, "like before" (when he gained simultaneous possession.) The only way that changes anything is if we argue a player must have both hands on the ball to have possession, obviously absurd in light of all the one handed catches we have seen over the years (I saw several last weekend alone.) That leaves us with "There is no such thing as a player having more control than the other based on having it near his chest," and likewise no such thing as a player having more control than the other based on having it in both hands rather than one. So the only thing established "again" was Tates second hand on the ball: Removing one hand while his other was still grasping it did not end possession.
Of course, even if it did there would still be the issue of whether Jennings was down in the endzone before Tate stripped him. Another of the many ways NFL rules favor the offense: If Jennings catches the ball in the endzone, then Tate takes it away, it is a TD unless Jennings first stepped out of the endzone, took a knee, or something similar to end the play. He could (and defensive backs often do, silly creatures that they are ) try to run the Int back, because the ball is still live, and as long as it IS alive Tate can take it away from him. However, if Tate manages to do that in the endzone, or if he comes down with it initially, it is a TD: A play ends the moment a player breaks the plane of their opponents goalline with the ball.
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This message last edited by Joel on 28/09/2012 at 01:10:48 AM
/NFL: now that replacement refs have cost the packers a win, can we please get the real ones back? *NM*
25/09/2012 05:14:58 AM
- 637 Views
Link? Clip?
25/09/2012 05:27:07 AM
- 603 Views
Let's just say that Gruden used the word "Jobbed" in the live telecast. *NM*
25/09/2012 05:35:08 AM
- 393 Views
Here's a link.
25/09/2012 05:36:56 AM
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Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post.
25/09/2012 05:47:07 AM
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youtube link
25/09/2012 07:00:29 AM
- 685 Views
Thanks; that looks like a textbook case of simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver: TD.
25/09/2012 07:29:28 AM
- 587 Views
pete carroll is a cheating douchebag, you cannot take his word for what happened
25/09/2012 10:59:33 AM
- 855 Views
I did not; I watched the clip: Simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver.
26/09/2012 01:30:18 AM
- 1201 Views
watch a better replay if you can
26/09/2012 02:38:17 AM
- 656 Views
Have now; still not convinced.
26/09/2012 04:01:23 AM
- 703 Views
also, the pass interference on tate that wasn't called is clear at 0:56 in that clip
25/09/2012 11:27:36 AM
- 666 Views
Tate was looking for the ball, and raised his hands to catch it, not push off Sam Shields.
26/09/2012 01:33:46 AM
- 608 Views
watch a better replay and get back to me on this one.
26/09/2012 02:36:43 AM
- 654 Views
Where did the NFL head office acknowledge that?
26/09/2012 03:52:36 AM
- 760 Views
in their official response to the whole incident....?
26/09/2012 04:14:52 AM
- 890 Views
Fair enough then; the NFLs official position is that offensive PI should have been called.
26/09/2012 04:45:58 AM
- 658 Views
Yeah, if one hand counts as possession
25/09/2012 05:15:37 PM
- 682 Views
Left hand between Jennings' arms and on the ball; right was outside Jennings' arm and on the ball.
26/09/2012 01:38:28 AM
- 619 Views
How have you not seen this play? Are you in a cave? *NM*
25/09/2012 03:57:55 PM
- 331 Views
No, I am in Norway, where NFL coverage is rather limited.
26/09/2012 01:40:07 AM
- 800 Views
While you can hardly blame the replacement refs because they are basically trainees...
25/09/2012 06:05:22 AM
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Now I really want to see this play.
25/09/2012 06:27:42 AM
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Re: Now I really want to see this play.
25/09/2012 02:48:56 PM
- 684 Views
I have still only seen the YouTube clip, but it looked like they both had both hands on the ball.
26/09/2012 01:58:27 AM
- 606 Views
You might appreciate learning that the Lingerie Football League fired some of these refs
25/09/2012 07:19:37 AM
- 681 Views
Tie goes to the receiver - the rule for decades. The Packers benefitted from worse calls last year
25/09/2012 11:31:47 AM
- 708 Views
you probably think greedo shot first too.....
25/09/2012 01:49:03 PM
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Possession doesn't mean squat until you land. Tate had it by then
25/09/2012 03:13:29 PM
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he had nothing until they landed and he tried to pull it away. everyone but you agrees on this *NM*
25/09/2012 03:25:43 PM
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Not so; Cannoli and I agree on pretty much every point involved in this play.
26/09/2012 02:17:01 AM
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They can't reverse that call.
25/09/2012 04:43:28 PM
- 744 Views
the only possible way was to rule it incomplete
25/09/2012 10:42:25 PM
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It was very obviously caught; you can't rule that incomplete.
25/09/2012 11:06:17 PM
- 640 Views
my philosophy is "interception = incomplete" but i think that's only for stats purposes
26/09/2012 12:32:43 AM
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Congrats Cannoli, you are the only person (thing?) in the country who thinks it's a TD *NM*
25/09/2012 03:53:18 PM
- 454 Views
I'm not even the only person in this thread, moron. *NM*
25/09/2012 04:07:48 PM
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Joel hasn't even seen the play, douchebag *NM*
25/09/2012 04:12:35 PM
- 333 Views
I have seen enough of it, and while I did not write Cannolis response, I easily could have.
26/09/2012 02:06:45 AM
- 650 Views
Slightly (very) loopy yet entertaining piece on why Ayn Rand is to blame for all of this.
25/09/2012 05:38:12 PM
- 579 Views
She hates revenue sharing, salary caps & the draft, too, but the Pack would be screwed without each.
26/09/2012 03:34:00 AM
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Here's the proof Cannoli is refusing to see
25/09/2012 05:54:07 PM
- 711 Views
Clearer shot, but stills do not allow us to see where Tates hands were at all times.
26/09/2012 02:10:25 AM
- 519 Views
you can't claim "good ol' strip" *AND* simultaneous catch -- which is it?
26/09/2012 02:35:41 AM
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I do not claim both: I claim simultaneous catch but IF not, then strip.
26/09/2012 03:51:47 AM
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you sure you saw the right replay?
26/09/2012 04:21:57 AM
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Think so, yeah.
26/09/2012 04:58:15 AM
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from another angle -- pun intended
26/09/2012 04:01:54 PM
- 630 Views
There are two separate issues: 1) Was it a simultaneous catch; 2) IF not, was it a strip?
27/09/2012 08:54:52 AM
- 811 Views
your opinion is against pretty much everyone in the world, so..... *shrug*
27/09/2012 03:55:33 PM
- 850 Views
Thanks; I did not expect you to give in so easily.
27/09/2012 10:14:30 PM
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did you even read that article???
28/09/2012 12:35:39 AM
- 684 Views
"his control wasn’t established again...."
28/09/2012 01:08:03 AM
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wow, what a thorough analysis you sent me either way, you're still wrong
28/09/2012 02:05:24 AM
- 746 Views
Worst calls are made all the time by the regular officials.
26/09/2012 01:23:57 AM
- 618 Views
yes, but not usually more than one per game, certainly not several in a single weekend.... *NM*
26/09/2012 02:39:56 AM
- 340 Views