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"his control wasn’t established again...." Joel Send a noteboard - 28/09/2012 01:08:03 AM
Last night, I said I thought it was simultaneous possession in my initial viewings. I now think that Tate’s right arm came off slightly on the way down, and so his control wasn’t established again until after it went back on (sixth picture down). He did have his hands on ball right away, and he did have possession when they contacted the ground. If his right hand had not come off for a split second on the fall, I think it is simultaneous possession by rule, regardless of what happened on the ground twisting around. There is no such thing as a player having more control than the other based on having it near his chest. It was a bang-bang play.

emphasis mine, for full effect. your own "proof" does not believe simultaneous possession because TATE LET GO OF THE BALL. simultaneous catch is defined by player control, not possession. try again....

"Again" as in, "like before" (when he gained simultaneous possession.) The only way that changes anything is if we argue a player must have both hands on the ball to have possession, obviously absurd in light of all the one handed catches we have seen over the years (I saw several last weekend alone.) That leaves us with "There is no such thing as a player having more control than the other based on having it near his chest," and likewise no such thing as a player having more control than the other based on having it in both hands rather than one. So the only thing established "again" was Tates second hand on the ball: Removing one hand while his other was still grasping it did not end possession.

Of course, even if it did there would still be the issue of whether Jennings was down in the endzone before Tate stripped him. Another of the many ways NFL rules favor the offense: If Jennings catches the ball in the endzone, then Tate takes it away, it is a TD unless Jennings first stepped out of the endzone, took a knee, or something similar to end the play. He could (and defensive backs often do, silly creatures that they are ;)) try to run the Int back, because the ball is still live, and as long as it IS alive Tate can take it away from him. However, if Tate manages to do that in the endzone, or if he comes down with it initially, it is a TD: A play ends the moment a player breaks the plane of their opponents goalline with the ball.
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This is the "last night" to which he referred, so I would claim his article anyway.
This message last edited by Joel on 28/09/2012 at 01:10:48 AM
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/NFL: now that replacement refs have cost the packers a win, can we please get the real ones back? *NM* - 25/09/2012 05:14:58 AM 637 Views
I was gonna keep it to one thread, but hell, I'll join yours. - 25/09/2012 05:24:26 AM 633 Views
Link? Clip? - 25/09/2012 05:27:07 AM 603 Views
Let's just say that Gruden used the word "Jobbed" in the live telecast. *NM* - 25/09/2012 05:35:08 AM 393 Views
Here's a link. - 25/09/2012 05:36:56 AM 684 Views
Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post. - 25/09/2012 05:47:07 AM 505 Views
Re: Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post. - 25/09/2012 05:52:55 AM 738 Views
Re: Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post. - 25/09/2012 06:13:46 AM 690 Views
youtube link - 25/09/2012 07:00:29 AM 685 Views
Thanks; that looks like a textbook case of simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver: TD. - 25/09/2012 07:29:28 AM 587 Views
pete carroll is a cheating douchebag, you cannot take his word for what happened - 25/09/2012 10:59:33 AM 855 Views
I did not; I watched the clip: Simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver. - 26/09/2012 01:30:18 AM 1201 Views
watch a better replay if you can - 26/09/2012 02:38:17 AM 656 Views
Have now; still not convinced. - 26/09/2012 04:01:23 AM 703 Views
that's ok. you're still wrong - 26/09/2012 04:12:56 AM 714 Views
I know you are but what am I? *MN* - 26/09/2012 04:48:47 AM 659 Views
How have you not seen this play? Are you in a cave? *NM* - 25/09/2012 03:57:55 PM 331 Views
No, I am in Norway, where NFL coverage is rather limited. - 26/09/2012 01:40:07 AM 800 Views
Wait, you're not in Houston? *NM* - 26/09/2012 01:42:45 AM 349 Views
Not since the Texas Sesquicentennial, no. - 26/09/2012 01:45:29 AM 570 Views
While you can hardly blame the replacement refs because they are basically trainees... - 25/09/2012 06:05:22 AM 771 Views
Now I really want to see this play. - 25/09/2012 06:27:42 AM 768 Views
Re: Now I really want to see this play. - 25/09/2012 02:48:56 PM 684 Views
I have still only seen the YouTube clip, but it looked like they both had both hands on the ball. - 26/09/2012 01:58:27 AM 606 Views
There are good views on nfl.com. Will link. - 26/09/2012 02:16:51 AM 775 Views
Thanks; I still do not see much to change my mind. - 26/09/2012 02:32:43 AM 675 Views
The last call was a joke. - 25/09/2012 06:52:59 AM 623 Views
Tie goes to the receiver - the rule for decades. The Packers benefitted from worse calls last year - 25/09/2012 11:31:47 AM 708 Views
you probably think greedo shot first too..... - 25/09/2012 01:49:03 PM 660 Views
They can't reverse that call. - 25/09/2012 04:43:28 PM 744 Views
the only possible way was to rule it incomplete - 25/09/2012 10:42:25 PM 723 Views
Congrats Cannoli, you are the only person (thing?) in the country who thinks it's a TD *NM* - 25/09/2012 03:53:18 PM 454 Views
I'm not even the only person in this thread, moron. *NM* - 25/09/2012 04:07:48 PM 363 Views
Joel hasn't even seen the play, douchebag *NM* - 25/09/2012 04:12:35 PM 333 Views
Just so you can get this information without namecalling ... - 25/09/2012 04:18:41 PM 637 Views
No I mean he hasn't seen the replay over and over on ESPN *NM* - 25/09/2012 04:21:46 PM 338 Views
Interesting. What is the rule with arguing refs? - 25/09/2012 05:18:35 PM 572 Views
That response was disturbingly like my thoughts on the play. - 26/09/2012 01:49:37 AM 665 Views
As a Seahawks fan. - 25/09/2012 02:10:58 PM 622 Views
No. Not with that attitude. *NM* - 25/09/2012 04:03:32 PM 311 Views
*throws public tantrum* *NM* - 25/09/2012 10:39:22 PM 305 Views
Here's the proof Cannoli is refusing to see - 25/09/2012 05:54:07 PM 711 Views
Clearer shot, but stills do not allow us to see where Tates hands were at all times. - 26/09/2012 02:10:25 AM 519 Views
you can't claim "good ol' strip" *AND* simultaneous catch -- which is it? - 26/09/2012 02:35:41 AM 949 Views
I do not claim both: I claim simultaneous catch but IF not, then strip. - 26/09/2012 03:51:47 AM 941 Views
you sure you saw the right replay? - 26/09/2012 04:21:57 AM 635 Views
Think so, yeah. - 26/09/2012 04:58:15 AM 762 Views
from another angle -- pun intended - 26/09/2012 04:01:54 PM 630 Views
There are two separate issues: 1) Was it a simultaneous catch; 2) IF not, was it a strip? - 27/09/2012 08:54:52 AM 811 Views
your opinion is against pretty much everyone in the world, so..... *shrug* - 27/09/2012 03:55:33 PM 850 Views
Thanks; I did not expect you to give in so easily. - 27/09/2012 10:14:30 PM 671 Views
did you even read that article??? - 28/09/2012 12:35:39 AM 684 Views
"his control wasn’t established again...." - 28/09/2012 01:08:03 AM 955 Views
wow, what a thorough analysis you sent me either way, you're still wrong - 28/09/2012 02:05:24 AM 746 Views
That is not an argument. - 28/09/2012 02:26:58 AM 573 Views

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