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I have suggested that before Tom Send a noteboard - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM
In fact, if you read my initial response, that's what I suggested.

The only problem is that privately-held companies wouldn't do that, but at the public company level it is a great idea. It gives them a stake in the company's profit (upside potential) and allows them to vote at shareholder meetings, but because they can vote however they want to they don't HAVE to end up all voting the same way. Convince your money investors that something is a good thing and get enough worker votes as well, and you can get that pay increase. But if all the workers vote against it, well, you don't get it.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 15/12/2012 at 02:32:08 PM
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Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1524 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. Tom - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 831 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 776 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 816 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... moondog - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 806 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 753 Views
Dude, that's insane. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 806 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 697 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 757 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less moondog - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 847 Views
The good and the bad of unions: Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 935 Views
Double post. Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 1023 Views
Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM 757 Views
the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management moondog - 13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM 801 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... beetnemesis - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 778 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* Narg - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 460 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? Cannoli - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 841 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only moondog - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 729 Views
Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 955 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. Narg - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 862 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... Jeordam - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 898 Views
one point i need to address here: moondog - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 696 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. moondog - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM 669 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: beetnemesis - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 921 Views
it's great? moondog - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 779 Views
Pissed off people.... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 707 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? moondog - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 825 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 679 Views
but that's my point exactly moondog - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 745 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* Isaac - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 387 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 716 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 712 Views
unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer moondog - 12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM 690 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand. everynametaken - 19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM 882 Views
So let me get this straight. Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 784 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 735 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD moondog - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 766 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... Tom - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 735 Views
That would be an interesting study... Jeordam - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 723 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... moondog - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 684 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 766 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. moondog - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 756 Views
How is that wrong? Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 705 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions moondog - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 730 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. Tom - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 723 Views
A brilliant argument... Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 804 Views
You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience Orange - 14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM 865 Views
Your hypothetical doesn't stand up in the real world, however. Tom - 14/12/2012 02:46:23 PM 791 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems moondog - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 712 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics Tom - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 652 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through moondog - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 727 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. Tom - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 711 Views
i'll take you one further.... moondog - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 672 Views
I have suggested that before Tom - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 703 Views
so you did. sorry about that! moondog - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 681 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) Jeordam - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 707 Views
funny thing about that..... moondog - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 667 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 732 Views
What do you want me to say? Jeordam - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 832 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 372 Views
The unions already destroyed the middle class..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM 751 Views
Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place? Dannymac - 14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM 675 Views
Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose. HyogaRott - 14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM 737 Views
Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise? Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM 1060 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. callandor1000 - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 773 Views
This must be a trying time for you. Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 728 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 334 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit Amyrlin - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 883 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 695 Views
You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM* heartbreak - 15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM 424 Views
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