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9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM

Mainly in that you are treating that proposal and the NRAs as mutually exclusive, and that engaging them on the basis of their specious claim gun control=prohibition implicitly legitimizes it. I feel like most people opposing their quite reasonable proposal are doing so solely to have another fight with the NRA (which clearly wants that just as badly) and demonize it as dangerously radical. I mean, c'mon, man putting a cop or two at a school "militarizes" it? Are you going to sit there and tell me that is a MODERATE view? If all law enforcement is so dangerously untrustworthy, who do you suggest enforce gun control laws?

i never said law enforcement is untrustworthy, i am saying that having them stationed in front of schools makes them primary targets in a shooting, and has not been shown to prevent massacres. in the case of the NYPD taking out a gunman in front of the empire state building, 9 people were injured by police gunfire. highly trained shooters cannot rely on a magic bullet only hitting their intended target and nothing else. when those other bystanders are 5 year old children, the risk is far beyond the reward. having people like chris christie and other prominent republicans in office denigrate the NRA's proposal suggests it is not as moderate nor sane as you would try to make it out to be.

That is actually a good example of a case where armed cops on the scene when the shooting began DID prevent a massacre. A number of people were injured when bullets struck surrounding objects and sent shrapnel flying, and the video of that incident suggests those cops were HORRIBLY trained, but how many people would that gunman have killed had the cops not been there and acted? We need only look at Aurora and Newtown to learn the answer.

I consider Christie a non-factor, btw. He is governor of NJ, so Newtown hit close to home and I doubt he can be fully objective about it. He is also a Republican, which means he must run far to the left of his party to remain viable in NJ, and is an endangered species in the Northeast regardless. He may be a union-buster, but cannot afford to be seen as a typical Republican (which will probably toast him during the 2016 primaries, but that is another issue.)

Sure, if someone decides to commit a mass shooting when he sees armed cops in front of him they will be his first target, but I would rather it be cops trained and armed to fight back than unarmed children. All but the most deranged will not attempt a massacre where armed cops are present anyway, and while I do not consider that an argument for putting armed cops on every street corner and in every convenience store, the vulnerability of schools justifies it for them.

at its heart, the NRA is nowadays nothing more than a shill for gun manufacturers. at one point they were about proper gun training and responsibility but they've gone beyond that and only care about making more money for the gun makers and nothing else. in this regard they are the right wing version of PETA and have the same level of lunacy with regards to public outreach and policy. PETA could also suggest something that might make sense, but like the NRA, at the end of the day they are still only concerned with their own self-promotion and no longer stand for the principles which they used to promote quite successfully.

If the suggestion has merit, wtf cares whence it came? But more importantly, when they propose something reasonable and you automatically attack it because of the source, it is YOU, not they, who sound like you are shilling for a personal agenda. Either the idea has merit or not (obviously I think it does) and that is the basis on which it should be addressed. Attacking it simply because it is the NRAs is a classic ad hominem beneath you.
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the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1201 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 720 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 752 Views
OK... - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 719 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea - 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM 568 Views
The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 618 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 708 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably - 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM 665 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 628 Views
If it's shown to work - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 710 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 604 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 749 Views
A fuller account of Gardner - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 809 Views
Nice link. - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 603 Views
Re: Nice link. - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 581 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 662 Views
What is public safety worth to you? - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 582 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 518 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 525 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 652 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 715 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 638 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 570 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 691 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 578 Views
[citation needed] - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 575 Views
Fair enough - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 930 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 671 Views
People die from all sort of causes - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 638 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not? - 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM 775 Views
Do bombs require certification? - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 863 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 659 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 620 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 627 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 555 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 585 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 574 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 887 Views
Dicks and stones - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 765 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 510 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 515 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 588 Views

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