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You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment." Joel Send a noteboard - 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Which STILL only has one comma, not four. "Reading issue," indeed. :rolleyes:
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When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them? Cannoli - 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM 1962 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM 1356 Views
You're actually not right on that one Isaac - 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM 1333 Views
That wasn't the point I was making TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM 1250 Views
You should probably clarify it then Isaac - 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM 1425 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post. Narg - 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM 1609 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM* Isaac - 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM 747 Views
I think TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM 1252 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle' Isaac - 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM 1267 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM 1328 Views
I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too? Isaac - 22/12/2012 12:38:45 AM 1222 Views
Re: I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too? TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 01:00:18 AM 1263 Views
Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me Isaac - 22/12/2012 01:15:08 AM 1323 Views
Re: Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 09:35:38 AM 1407 Views
So much for serious conversation Isaac - 22/12/2012 05:09:08 PM 1236 Views
Oh I'm certainly bowing out TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 06:07:11 PM 1265 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear. TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM 1283 Views
Re: I thought I was being perfectly clear. Isaac - 21/12/2012 11:25:04 PM 1288 Views
Oh I wasn't commenting on the standard of people here TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 11:29:36 PM 1287 Views
A bit of an aside, but I was reading that the gun used in the attack can be bought in Canada too. Nate - 21/12/2012 06:14:01 PM 1280 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se moondog - 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM 1225 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense Isaac - 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM 1307 Views
He is right about Australia TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM 1224 Views
No kidding Isaac - 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM 1217 Views
If you knew all that TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM 1291 Views
Because I used wiki of course Isaac - 21/12/2012 11:21:25 PM 1462 Views
He said ""self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon" TheCrownless - 21/12/2012 11:34:59 PM 1222 Views
Yes,which is un-cited, but I did prove it's a valid excuse to use one, so... Isaac - 22/12/2012 12:36:19 AM 1303 Views
The difference between allowing someone to defend themselves with a gun they have TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 01:09:40 AM 1244 Views
Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind. Isaac - 22/12/2012 01:17:25 AM 1277 Views
Re: Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind. TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 09:51:51 AM 1370 Views
A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence Isaac - 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM 1257 Views
If only you'd asked him for a citation rather than just saying you thought he was wrong eh? *NM* TheCrownless - 23/12/2012 12:29:30 AM 823 Views
Same thing, don't split hairs *NM* Isaac - 23/12/2012 12:43:44 AM 806 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant. Joel - 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM 1233 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets. Cannoli - 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM 1324 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns? Joel - 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM 1473 Views
Court rulings have determined that your Constitutional Rights can be restricted for felony/insanity *NM* HyogaRott - 23/12/2012 12:59:31 PM 750 Views
Activist judges should not make law. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM 1266 Views
I agree, but the courts have already ruled that way so we are stuck. *NM* HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:03:35 PM 714 Views
Then I guess we need the courts to rule gun owners need screening, training and licensing. Joel - 26/12/2012 03:46:05 PM 1282 Views
No, if you want to restrict the 2nd (or any other amendment) amend the Constitution HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 07:56:19 PM 1229 Views
I do not want to restrict the Second Amendment, only enact the regulations it explictly allows. Joel - 26/12/2012 08:50:09 PM 1314 Views
I disagree with your interpretation. The simple EXISTANCE of the BoR makes it binding on the states HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 03:46:17 PM 1258 Views
"Congress shall make no law..." restricts the STATES? How, exactly? Joel - 28/12/2012 03:03:19 PM 1224 Views
The 2nd amendment does not mention Congress in any way. There is that reading issue again. HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 10:02:41 PM 1183 Views
You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment." Joel - 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM 1258 Views
Copy-N-Paste, get over it. we are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment, not everything. HyogaRott - 29/12/2012 02:24:30 PM 1128 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference. Joel - 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM 1331 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable Isaac - 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM 1263 Views
How many of the people I was complaining about would know that? Cannoli - 22/12/2012 12:48:59 AM 1240 Views
Some, possibly? I am ever the optimist Isaac - 22/12/2012 12:58:36 AM 1196 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one. Joel - 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM 1213 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know Isaac - 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM 1197 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto Joel - 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM 1426 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy" Isaac - 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM 1476 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system." Joel - 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM 1333 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now Isaac - 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM 1426 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right? Joel - 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM 1165 Views
Well I can't say it surprises Isaac - 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM 1151 Views
No one expects the Online Inquisition! Joel - 27/12/2012 05:20:44 PM 1166 Views
I've enjoyed most reboots Isaac - 28/12/2012 01:06:05 AM 1111 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. Roland00 - 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM 1184 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. MrFarstrider - 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM 1216 Views
Yes people can always still kill each other, humans are very ingenuitive Roland00 - 22/12/2012 04:42:04 AM 1234 Views
I took a driving exam when I was 16, and have never been tested since, nor will I ever be. HyogaRott - 23/12/2012 01:17:05 PM 1378 Views
Never is a long time; just renewing a license requires retaking the eye exam most places. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:16:54 PM 1270 Views
Rather hard to do an eye exam online or through the mail. HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:08:06 PM 1354 Views
Yes, it is, which is why I have always had to go by DPS for a new license. Joel - 26/12/2012 03:50:04 PM 1195 Views
Tennessee and Florida pass them out like candy. For several years TN offered a no ID license HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 08:02:39 PM 1206 Views
I still find it odd they require no eye test, that either allows the blind drivers licenses. Joel - 26/12/2012 08:58:57 PM 1223 Views
Oh yeah, we have wandered off course *shrug* HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 03:55:55 PM 1381 Views
Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing. Joel - 28/12/2012 03:35:34 PM 2913 Views
Re: Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing. HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 10:14:32 PM 1073 Views
If you can prove someone voted illegally, call the ACLU and claim your $1000. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:18:38 PM 1246 Views
puhleeze.... election fraud is a fact. Pick a state, ANY state, ANY election... HyogaRott - 29/12/2012 02:41:40 PM 1211 Views
umm... ironclad - 22/12/2012 12:41:31 PM 1136 Views
Clip size is meaningless, semi-autos and even revolvers can be reloaded VERY quickly. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/12/2012 01:20:59 PM 687 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout MrFarstrider - 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM 1322 Views
typical NRA bullshit response moondog - 22/12/2012 04:53:40 AM 1253 Views
typical Moondog bullshit response HyogaRott - 23/12/2012 01:06:12 PM 1262 Views
of course! there is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone. got it moondog - 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM 1162 Views
There is no corelation between decidng to kill someone and what tool you use. HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:11:08 PM 1178 Views
By that logic no one needs a gun for self-defense; a coffee mug is perfectly adequate. Joel - 26/12/2012 09:06:51 PM 1256 Views
I can kill you with my coffee mug... RESPECT THE MUG but I wouldn't, I might spill the coffee. HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 04:08:52 PM 1124 Views
So you are saying you do not need a gun then? I will keep mine anyway, thanks. Joel - 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM 1226 Views
You covered a bunch of different things, and completely misrepresentted what I wrote HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 10:28:24 PM 1250 Views
Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:44:19 PM 1465 Views
Re: Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones. HyogaRott - 29/12/2012 03:31:01 PM 1240 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed Joel - 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM 1378 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM 738 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM 1228 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM* HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM 667 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution. Joel - 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM 1281 Views
Yes you are. HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM 1118 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar. Joel - 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM 1285 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM 1343 Views
Ironically, you misspelled "learn." Joel - 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM 1549 Views
I know, I thought about going back and fixing the typo, but thought it was funny so I left it. *NM* HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM 682 Views
I agree it is funny, but probably for different reasons. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:19:44 PM 1172 Views
2 commas or 4 makes no difference one is a 12D the other is a sentance. HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 10:55:31 PM 1183 Views
It makes a huge difference when (incorrectly) claiming to know the text. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:31:51 PM 1487 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meeant "able to use it effectively" HyogaRott - 29/12/2012 03:47:57 PM 1260 Views
You are wrong. snoopcester - 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM 1222 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it. Joel - 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM 1211 Views
We're also averse to being wrong. snoopcester - 22/12/2012 02:53:49 PM 1248 Views
So you say... Joel - 22/12/2012 03:32:16 PM 1189 Views
guns r stpid *NM* Kuke - 23/12/2012 12:39:30 AM 858 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns Helene - 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM 1241 Views
She also had many knives, and blunt objecs around the house. Tools are only as good as the user HyogaRott - 23/12/2012 01:10:58 PM 1268 Views
So clearly she wasn't prepared enough... btw, do we know she was sleeping? Helene - 27/12/2012 10:52:03 AM 1188 Views
That she 1) was in bed, 2) had guns for self-defense and 3) was shot 4 times strongly suggests sleep Joel - 28/12/2012 11:49:20 PM 1315 Views
How doesn't it prove that owning guns doesn't make you safer Helene - 29/12/2012 06:54:34 AM 1176 Views
She was asleep with him in the house. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM 1258 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one... HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM 1197 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd. Joel - 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM 1202 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time... HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM 1199 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers. Joel - 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM 1198 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM* HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM 707 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...." Joel - 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM 1199 Views
*see previous grammar lesson* *NM* HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 10:31:43 PM 663 Views
The instant it becomes relevant, I shall. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:45:01 PM 1359 Views
Your point being? Helene - 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM 1173 Views
I am certain it would have been better, though not good, if she had been awake and shot him. Joel - 27/12/2012 02:16:13 PM 1241 Views
So the situation of Nancy and Adam shooting at each other Helene - 28/12/2012 07:44:12 AM 1265 Views
No, I believe they were both mentally incompetent to have guns; that does not mean EVERYONE is. Joel - 28/12/2012 02:19:51 PM 1223 Views
How do you know Nancy Lanza was mentally incompetent? Helene - 29/12/2012 07:06:40 AM 1227 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people. HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM 1163 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant? Helene - 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM 1180 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM* HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM 700 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine. Helene - 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM 1197 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered. HyogaRott - 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM 1246 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed Helene - 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM 1169 Views
You make no sense. HyogaRott - 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM 1218 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point. Helene - 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM 1310 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought HyogaRott - 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM 1242 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM* Helene - 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM 831 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent Isaac - 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM 1346 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said Helene - 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM 1316 Views
He did not Isaac - 05/01/2013 01:39:40 PM 1656 Views
Facts are irrelevant when FUD is the order of the day. Macharius - 24/12/2012 04:34:18 PM 1185 Views
It irritates me too. *NM* Avendesora - 01/01/2013 01:55:05 PM 689 Views
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