Community Messageboard: Shouldn't you be able to answer this question from what you just wrote? by Jeordam

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Shouldn't you be able to answer this question from what you just wrote? Jeordam Send a noteboard - 13/02/2013 11:02:28 PM

Paul said, in one of his NT epistles, that he did not allow women authority in the Church. Yet GOD appointed Deborah a Judge, both spiritual and secular ruler of Israel, and when Josiah found the old copy of the Torah, it was the prophetess Huldah rather than Jermiah whom he asked what to do about it. So who is right, God, Whom scripture tells us made several women prophetess' and spiritual authorities, or Paul, who says in scripture said he did not allow women ANY spiritual authority? Typically, I tend to side with the OT prophets who DID represent their canonized words as divinely inspired over the NT apostle who just as explicitly stated—in scripture—that a number of his scriptural statements wree NOT divinely inspired.

"Paul said, in one of his NT epistles, that he did not allow women authority in the Church." Paul said that he wasn't into it. Paul didn't say that God wasn't into it. As you pointed out, God Himself (as it were) put Deborah in charge. Josiah, one of the good kings, asked Huldah what to do. We know full well that God gifts those whom He gifts. Deborah & Huldah obviously had the giftings from God, and the willingness in and of themselves to be obedient to what God had called them to do.

So how does Paul and his anti-women thing work in? *shrug* I'm not sure, but I'm sure that Paul got to discuss this with God at length. But it doesn't change the fact that God inspired Paul to put ink to paper in that exact way. Why? Maybe so we could discuss it...that we could dialogue about it...that we could learn a valueable lesson in the fact that Paul's personal opinions were his personal opinions (for whatever reason).

I'm a big believer that God gifts those whom He gifts. I fully acknowledge that there are those out there who have the <insert gift here> to do something, and that their willingness to do what God has gifted them to do should be the only factor. I certainly don't want to stand before God and say that I stood in the way of so and so because they weren't <insert physical trait here> enough.

~Jeordam

ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985

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So the Pope has resigned Wibble - 11/02/2013 01:01:59 PM 1468 Views

Re: So the Pope has resigned HyogaRott - 11/02/2013 02:29:13 PM 894 Views

As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:05:34 AM 846 Views

Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... HyogaRott - 12/02/2013 09:21:30 PM 787 Views

One mistake in my original post..... Anonymous2000 - 13/02/2013 01:27:48 AM 779 Views

Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:35:14 AM 749 Views

Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 03:45:23 PM 828 Views

Luke or Paul? Isaac - 13/02/2013 04:36:27 PM 759 Views

That is what I get for only having decaf coffee this morning... HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 05:43:57 PM 826 Views

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:36:03 PM 680 Views

Re: I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. HyogaRott - 14/02/2013 11:12:34 PM 784 Views

Hate to jump you again but are you sure you mean Timothy? Isaac - 14/02/2013 11:54:00 PM 816 Views

Yep, I ment Timothy HyogaRott - 15/02/2013 04:18:21 AM 782 Views

Re: Yep, I ment Timothy Isaac - 15/02/2013 11:03:16 AM 769 Views

If "the bible is still the bible," then what of Deborah, Huldah and Phoebe, to name but a few? Joel - 13/02/2013 06:17:44 PM 903 Views

Why wouldn't it still be devinely inspired? Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:44:07 PM 815 Views

Um, because then God was lying when He inspired someone to write "this is not Gods commandment." Joel - 13/02/2013 07:42:15 PM 792 Views

You're missing a really key point Jeordam - 13/02/2013 09:13:32 PM 836 Views

You are using an epistle to say every word of all epistles is divinely inspired?

Joel - 13/02/2013 10:00:36 PM 967 Views

Let us take it full circle: The ecclesiastical authority of women Joel - 13/02/2013 10:21:26 PM 856 Views

Shouldn't you be able to answer this question from what you just wrote? Jeordam - 13/02/2013 11:02:28 PM 866 Views

Oh, certainly; I just felt like I was dragging you with me kicking and screaming.

Joel - 14/02/2013 01:05:14 AM 828 Views

So Roman Catholic priests CAN marry, under tortuous conditions? Interesting.... Joel - 13/02/2013 03:40:48 PM 714 Views

A priest can't marry, but a married person can become a priest. HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 03:51:02 PM 746 Views

Heh, yeah, I guess I slightly mischaracterized what you were saying. Joel - 13/02/2013 05:54:05 PM 862 Views

There are a bunch of semi-Catholic denominations that allow priests to marry. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:06:13 PM 762 Views

That makes more sense. Joel - 13/02/2013 06:23:36 PM 826 Views

Here's my chance. I'm putting in my application. Palatine - 11/02/2013 04:20:52 PM 939 Views

Unfortunately it matters due to the power he has... Wibble - 11/02/2013 04:42:25 PM 877 Views

Religions don't work that way. They are full of moral absolutes. There is no flexibility *NM* Dark Knight - 11/02/2013 06:10:19 PM 417 Views

Of course there is flexibility. The minute their money is threatened they flex like mad... *NM* Wibble - 11/02/2013 06:25:02 PM 409 Views

I'd imagine Unitarians and several other religions would beg to differ Isaac - 11/02/2013 09:28:39 PM 847 Views

Hah, are you kidding? beetnemesis - 13/02/2013 02:20:54 PM 916 Views

You would like the Roman Catholic Church to do some good FOR ONCE?!

Joel - 11/02/2013 08:00:26 PM 941 Views

Well said. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/02/2013 10:55:18 PM 455 Views

You give them too much credit. Wibble - 11/02/2013 11:19:06 PM 925 Views

Put on blinders much? HyogaRott - 11/02/2013 11:50:01 PM 849 Views

I lol'd. *NM* Wibble - 11/02/2013 11:54:09 PM 431 Views

Grant me Chastity and Continence, But Not Yet! *NM* Roland00 - 12/02/2013 03:35:26 AM 363 Views

Chastity: A Virtue best found in others

*NM* Isaac - 12/02/2013 12:53:26 PM 361 Views

and continence too, apparently..... *NM* moondog - 14/02/2013 12:18:22 AM 430 Views

Well said. Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:43:47 AM 728 Views

You really don't know how human psychology works, do you? Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:28:23 PM 801 Views

..and you don't get that it isn't what people will/may do, but what they should. HyogaRott - 15/02/2013 04:22:26 AM 982 Views

It's not religion, it's HIV or no HIV. Legolas - 15/02/2013 10:45:52 PM 763 Views

it's not HIV or no HIV, it is about what people should do. HyogaRott - 16/02/2013 07:02:36 PM 847 Views

Of course they don't have to teach people how to use condoms. Legolas - 17/02/2013 10:46:38 AM 758 Views

You're showing some glaring bias and hostility here Isaac - 12/02/2013 01:58:17 PM 740 Views

No, you are giving them far too little. Joel - 13/02/2013 03:33:03 PM 748 Views

The catholic church is significantly growing in Africa and with Hispanics. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:41:54 AM 485 Views

Oh, that. Palatine - 12/02/2013 03:04:42 PM 711 Views

That's such a load Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:39:45 AM 799 Views

Oops, I meant to reply here - As a catholic.....my take. Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:39:42 AM 872 Views

I'd say the chances are about as good... Dragonsoul - 12/02/2013 03:48:29 PM 965 Views

So teh chances are excellent then! Good to know. Wibble - 12/02/2013 04:51:43 PM 809 Views

I doubt there's much of a chance of a real progressive. Stephen - 12/02/2013 06:38:14 PM 774 Views

IDK, two straight non-Italians? Will they put up with a 3rd? Has that even happened since Avignon? Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:46:28 AM 837 Views

Who says Benedict/Ratzinger is straight? Roland00 - 13/02/2013 04:56:52 AM 737 Views

Don't think so, but the Italians will have to get used to it. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:34:24 PM 736 Views

This will be a very interesting time. Dannymac - 13/02/2013 06:27:41 PM 869 Views

He's retiring into a monastery in the Vatican, as I understand it. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:42:14 PM 853 Views

Now this would be interesting.... Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:51:40 PM 826 Views

Right now I would settle for making up lost ground... Dannymac - 14/02/2013 05:02:38 AM 735 Views

Pope Bene-victed... Raserei - 19/02/2013 07:56:17 AM 1014 Views

Hurrah, Ras. I love a good pun or three. *NM* Palatine - 19/02/2013 01:55:11 PM 334 Views

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<quote id="272669"><quote id="272668">Paul said, in one of his NT epistles, that he did not allow women authority in the Church.  Yet GOD appointed Deborah a Judge, both spiritual and secular ruler of Israel, and when Josiah found the old copy of the Torah, it was the prophetess Huldah rather than Jermiah whom he asked what to do about it.  So who is right, God, Whom scripture tells us made several women prophetess' and spiritual authorities, or Paul, who says in scripture said he did not allow women ANY spiritual authority?  Typically, I tend to side with the OT prophets who DID represent their canonized words as divinely inspired over the NT apostle who just as explicitly stated—in scripture—that a number of his scriptural statements wree NOT divinely inspired.</quote></quote>

<quote id="272669">"Paul said, in one of his NT epistles, that he did not allow women authority in the Church." Paul said that he wasn't into it. Paul didn't say that God wasn't into it. As you pointed out, God Himself (as it were) put Deborah in charge. Josiah, one of the good kings, asked Huldah what to do. We know full well that God gifts those whom He gifts. Deborah & Huldah obviously had the giftings from God, and the willingness in and of themselves to be obedient to what God had called them to do.</quote>

<quote id="272669">So how does Paul and his anti-women thing work in? *shrug* I'm not sure, but I'm sure that Paul got to discuss this with God at length. But it doesn't change the fact that God inspired Paul to put ink to paper in that exact way. Why? Maybe so we could discuss it...that we could dialogue about it...that we could learn a valueable lesson in the fact that Paul's personal opinions were his personal opinions (for whatever reason). </quote>

<quote id="272669">I'm a big believer that God gifts those whom He gifts. I fully acknowledge that there are those out there who have the <insert gift here> to do something, and that their willingness to do what God has gifted them to do should be the only factor. I certainly don't want to stand before God and say that I stood in the way of so and so because they weren't <insert physical trait here> enough.</quote>

<quote id="272669">~Jeordam</quote>

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