Excellent - and done better than most of the rest of us. *NM*
@my Send a noteboard - 30/09/2009 03:34:11 PM
Answers to some of the incorrect information flying around this thread:
1. He didn't know she was 13.
Yes, he did. Polanski asked the girl's mother if he could shoot pictures of her for Vogue. There were two photo sessions (the attack took place at the second one). Polanski did not randomly bump into her. He knew her and her family, met her mother on several occasions, gained her legal consent for the photo shoot (which would involve full disclosure of her age) and he well knew how old she was.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas's link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-477609/The-dark-secrets-Roman-Polanksi.html
We also know that the Vogue photo-shoot was specifically going to be of young girls in the victim's age range.
2. He was never proven guilty.
Yes, he was. He did not flee the United States before the trial, he fled it after admitting his guilt.
3. It wasn't rape.
Yes, it was. Sex with a minor does not use the word 'rape' in its title, but since a minor cannot give legal consent to sexual intercourse, it is rape. The difference is a legally semantic one.
In addition, whilst Polanski's legal team has only ever focused on sentencing regarding the charge he admitted guilt to, the Los Angeles County Court has ruled that ALL of the original charges, including the drugging and indeed the possible use of the 'statutory rape' charge could be back on the table should he return to the United States:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/movies/06polanski.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&sq=polanski%20dalton&st=cse&scp=4
4. He's hasn't repeated the offence again in the past 32 years.
Yes, he has. He began a relationship with actress Nastassja Kinski when she was 15 years old. This is (just) the legal age of consent in France, but is not the age of consent in the USA or UK. His prediliction for young girls remained intact after the incident, showing that the experience did not rehabilitate him.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas, I realised this incident happened in 1976, a year before the original case took place. There is no evidence that Polanski has re-offended on this score since the original incident, merely that when it took place it was not the first time it happened.
5. The victim doesn't want the matter pursued.
The victim did want the matter pursued quite vigorously until she settled a civil case with Polanski a few years ago where she was paid money to drop the matter. Now she wants the matter dropped which, whilst a point certainly worth invoking, is ultimately overriden by Polanski's flight from justice and also the debt he owes to society. Part of the punishment for a crime is ensuring that others are inspired not to commit the same crime. The high profile nature of this case has given rise to the belief that it is possible to commit a crime in the United States and then flee to France where you will not be extradited back to the USA. Also, given that the overwhelming majority of rape cases are still not reported, showing that the perpetrator of such a crime can still be brought to justice 30 years on is a powerful display of the law working as intended.
In short, the victim doesn't want the matter pursued as she has been paid off. Good for her, but that isn't the only issue involved here.
Clarification: The victim began civil proceedings against Polanski through the French court system in 1990. She pursued the case for seven years until they reached an out-of-court settlement in 1997. Immediately after the settlement was reached, she publicly forgave Polanski, whilst still maintaining he had 'drugged and raped her as a starstruck kid'. It is possible that this declaration was part of the terms of the settlement, although this is not confirmed.
6. The judge was planning to shaft him.
Possibly true. In fact, the judge was later taken off the case because of concerns over his competence. However, there are many legal recourses that could have been taken against the judge if he indeed reneged on the plea bargain. Since thousands of cases in California alone are dependant on plea-bargaining being permitted to get any kind of verdict, dishonouring one would have been a horrendous precedent to set. It is also unclear if the judge actually was going to do this, or was blowing off steam in a private conversation after being shown pictures of Polanski 'partying' in Europe before sentencing.
I think that about covers it: he knew how old she was, he admitted that he did it, he went on to do it again and the original victim was paid off not to pursue the matter any further, which has zero bearing on the legal side of things.
1. He didn't know she was 13.
Yes, he did. Polanski asked the girl's mother if he could shoot pictures of her for Vogue. There were two photo sessions (the attack took place at the second one). Polanski did not randomly bump into her. He knew her and her family, met her mother on several occasions, gained her legal consent for the photo shoot (which would involve full disclosure of her age) and he well knew how old she was.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas's link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-477609/The-dark-secrets-Roman-Polanksi.html
We also know that the Vogue photo-shoot was specifically going to be of young girls in the victim's age range.
2. He was never proven guilty.
Yes, he was. He did not flee the United States before the trial, he fled it after admitting his guilt.
3. It wasn't rape.
Yes, it was. Sex with a minor does not use the word 'rape' in its title, but since a minor cannot give legal consent to sexual intercourse, it is rape. The difference is a legally semantic one.
In addition, whilst Polanski's legal team has only ever focused on sentencing regarding the charge he admitted guilt to, the Los Angeles County Court has ruled that ALL of the original charges, including the drugging and indeed the possible use of the 'statutory rape' charge could be back on the table should he return to the United States:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/movies/06polanski.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&sq=polanski%20dalton&st=cse&scp=4
4. He's hasn't repeated the offence again in the past 32 years.
Yes, he has. He began a relationship with actress Nastassja Kinski when she was 15 years old. This is (just) the legal age of consent in France, but is not the age of consent in the USA or UK. His prediliction for young girls remained intact after the incident, showing that the experience did not rehabilitate him.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas, I realised this incident happened in 1976, a year before the original case took place. There is no evidence that Polanski has re-offended on this score since the original incident, merely that when it took place it was not the first time it happened.
5. The victim doesn't want the matter pursued.
The victim did want the matter pursued quite vigorously until she settled a civil case with Polanski a few years ago where she was paid money to drop the matter. Now she wants the matter dropped which, whilst a point certainly worth invoking, is ultimately overriden by Polanski's flight from justice and also the debt he owes to society. Part of the punishment for a crime is ensuring that others are inspired not to commit the same crime. The high profile nature of this case has given rise to the belief that it is possible to commit a crime in the United States and then flee to France where you will not be extradited back to the USA. Also, given that the overwhelming majority of rape cases are still not reported, showing that the perpetrator of such a crime can still be brought to justice 30 years on is a powerful display of the law working as intended.
In short, the victim doesn't want the matter pursued as she has been paid off. Good for her, but that isn't the only issue involved here.
Clarification: The victim began civil proceedings against Polanski through the French court system in 1990. She pursued the case for seven years until they reached an out-of-court settlement in 1997. Immediately after the settlement was reached, she publicly forgave Polanski, whilst still maintaining he had 'drugged and raped her as a starstruck kid'. It is possible that this declaration was part of the terms of the settlement, although this is not confirmed.
6. The judge was planning to shaft him.
Possibly true. In fact, the judge was later taken off the case because of concerns over his competence. However, there are many legal recourses that could have been taken against the judge if he indeed reneged on the plea bargain. Since thousands of cases in California alone are dependant on plea-bargaining being permitted to get any kind of verdict, dishonouring one would have been a horrendous precedent to set. It is also unclear if the judge actually was going to do this, or was blowing off steam in a private conversation after being shown pictures of Polanski 'partying' in Europe before sentencing.
I think that about covers it: he knew how old she was, he admitted that he did it, he went on to do it again and the original victim was paid off not to pursue the matter any further, which has zero bearing on the legal side of things.
Amy
formerly known as Amyrlin
Btw I miss you too ~ K.B. 1971-2006
formerly known as Amyrlin
Btw I miss you too ~ K.B. 1971-2006
/History/Politics/I'm not sure: A commentary on the Roman Polanski arrest
29/09/2009 10:15:12 AM
- 1319 Views
There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 11:53:41 AM
- 515 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 11:57:18 AM
- 613 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 12:09:27 PM
- 376 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 12:15:54 PM
- 473 Views
For thousands of years 13yos have been having sex with much older males.
29/09/2009 02:46:27 PM
- 432 Views
Lots of things have been going on for thousands of years.
29/09/2009 03:35:06 PM
- 380 Views
Well on the flip side
29/09/2009 03:49:35 PM
- 481 Views
if you were talking "consensual", i'd probably at least grudgingly agree
29/09/2009 04:07:08 PM
- 486 Views
Problem is that we don't know
29/09/2009 04:46:15 PM
- 477 Views
he said/she said/lawyer said
29/09/2009 05:01:41 PM
- 531 Views
Yep
29/09/2009 05:28:16 PM
- 506 Views
I was not under the impression he did not know she was a minor
29/09/2009 05:50:38 PM
- 503 Views
Well, Angelica Huston (who was there that night) didn't think she looked 'like a minor'
29/09/2009 06:17:15 PM
- 537 Views
It was a photo shoot for a film why WOULD she look like a minor??
29/09/2009 06:27:00 PM
- 529 Views
Sorry - no it wasn't for a film at all
29/09/2009 06:39:14 PM
- 435 Views
I believe at some point it wasn mentioned to be connected to a film
29/09/2009 06:42:25 PM
- 316 Views
I've never seen anything to support that
29/09/2009 07:01:56 PM
- 336 Views
even if the paperwork didn't show it
29/09/2009 07:06:02 PM
- 520 Views
Possibly
29/09/2009 07:35:33 PM
- 518 Views
and i'm saying that if it was under contest
29/09/2009 07:38:24 PM
- 480 Views
here is a photo of her taken that same year.
29/09/2009 08:10:21 PM
- 543 Views
Seen that one as part of my research on this
29/09/2009 08:22:33 PM
- 556 Views
I think it very telling that you want to take this line of when Polanski doesn't
29/09/2009 08:36:47 PM
- 406 Views
Really? Who says?
29/09/2009 08:42:38 PM
- 465 Views
I can't prove it wasn't aliens using mind control rays that forced him to do it
29/09/2009 08:57:10 PM
- 373 Views
There is one thing I would like to say.
29/09/2009 09:03:06 PM
- 376 Views
Absolutely unacceptable behavior for an administrator, Avendesora.
30/09/2009 10:44:32 PM
- 454 Views
actually, it was an honest mistake. I accidentally clicked on "edit" instead of "reply".
01/10/2009 06:25:48 PM
- 333 Views
he could have had a trial and chose not to
29/09/2009 05:41:11 PM
- 489 Views
Yes, he could have
29/09/2009 05:56:05 PM
- 449 Views
so he fled the country to spare her the humilation of a trial?
29/09/2009 08:11:59 PM
- 479 Views
Nope
29/09/2009 08:28:58 PM
- 339 Views
no it isn't but you seem to have trouble understanding he drugged and rapped a child
30/09/2009 09:24:53 PM
- 516 Views
You seem to have trouble understanding that an accusation isn't proof
30/09/2009 11:04:35 PM
- 495 Views
The coward fled the country before anything could be proven
01/10/2009 06:25:27 AM
- 483 Views
You really don't get it do you?
01/10/2009 04:20:36 PM
- 289 Views
I don't get it??????
01/10/2009 05:22:51 PM
- 366 Views
Yeah - you don't and it's a good thing you're not part of the legal system
01/10/2009 05:32:57 PM
- 450 Views
For thousands of years gays have been persecuted and treated as abhorrent perverts.
02/10/2009 02:57:47 AM
- 499 Views
And a big fuck you to you too.
05/10/2009 03:08:09 PM
- 318 Views
He's just a troll, as he's shown in many threads. *NM*
05/10/2009 03:19:14 PM
- 256 Views
Yes, it's not like I have a valid point or anything.
*NM*
05/10/2009 07:16:13 PM
- 273 Views

Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
05/10/2009 07:46:18 PM
- 322 Views
Well, I guess you'll have to fulfill your role here and pass sentence...
06/10/2009 09:19:34 PM
- 492 Views
Oh, I'm sorry. It's not ok to point out the hypocritical holes in your argument? My bad.
05/10/2009 07:15:33 PM
- 321 Views
I've been following this with some interest
29/09/2009 03:28:36 PM
- 336 Views
That was my impression as well.
29/09/2009 03:38:48 PM
- 318 Views
I agree with many of your points, but on some the facts seem to say something else.
29/09/2009 04:13:09 PM
- 506 Views
Problem of course is that those are not 'facts'
29/09/2009 04:58:28 PM
- 504 Views
first you demand fact before judgement then you make a judgement on your opinion?
29/09/2009 05:04:59 PM
- 448 Views
because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
29/09/2009 04:17:06 PM
- 489 Views
Re: because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
29/09/2009 05:17:57 PM
- 412 Views
*snort*
29/09/2009 05:30:25 PM
- 421 Views
I would have to agree with you there, actually
29/09/2009 05:47:13 PM
- 558 Views
Re: I would have to agree with your first point, but not the second
29/09/2009 05:47:40 PM
- 527 Views
There is no way in hell he did not know she was underage.
29/09/2009 05:55:37 PM
- 475 Views
Not necessarily true at all
29/09/2009 06:32:18 PM
- 424 Views
Somehow, i heavily doubt the fact she was NOT 18 would never have come to light
29/09/2009 06:40:20 PM
- 487 Views
You may be right, I don't know.
29/09/2009 06:58:45 PM
- 500 Views
so you agree he is guilty to the allegation he pleaded guilty to of sex with a minor?
29/09/2009 07:09:07 PM
- 406 Views
There was never any doubt of that
29/09/2009 07:46:43 PM
- 394 Views
Yeah, I agree about the vigilante part and the extreme reactions...
29/09/2009 07:58:18 PM
- 516 Views
I think I'm reading that article more critically than you are.
29/09/2009 08:37:23 PM
- 462 Views
Or you've already made up your mind, while I'm basing mine on what I read.
29/09/2009 08:46:56 PM
- 541 Views
An article that has a lot of additional detail...
29/09/2009 07:18:29 PM
- 517 Views
I wish i could put a nice big star next to this.
29/09/2009 07:29:38 PM
- 421 Views
Umm - why?
29/09/2009 08:04:29 PM
- 471 Views
Yes, well, online newspaper archives don't tend to date back very far...
29/09/2009 08:14:52 PM
- 502 Views
Oh, and if you want to read the op-ed she wrote...
29/09/2009 08:20:06 PM
- 433 Views
Camilla - he drugged and raped a 13-year old.....what else do you need to know?
*NM*
29/09/2009 06:19:19 PM
- 286 Views

I don't know that. Neither do you. Which is part of it. *NM*
29/09/2009 06:20:22 PM
- 281 Views
Yes we do.....
29/09/2009 06:30:46 PM
- 470 Views
No, we don't.
29/09/2009 06:48:35 PM
- 427 Views
if these "Facts" were false
29/09/2009 07:02:50 PM
- 449 Views
That's extremely naive
29/09/2009 08:07:15 PM
- 339 Views
i fail to see how this is naive
29/09/2009 08:35:59 PM
- 504 Views
The naive part
29/09/2009 08:49:18 PM
- 497 Views
I'm not assuming anyone (not just her personal testimony) was telling the truth
29/09/2009 08:56:52 PM
- 523 Views
I think that I'm just more cynical than you are
29/09/2009 09:12:12 PM
- 472 Views
So because i'm not cynical about the court system and have a different train of logic
29/09/2009 09:25:53 PM
- 488 Views
Not necessarily wrong
29/09/2009 09:43:33 PM
- 463 Views
Uhm, his bargain wasn't 40-odd days in evaulation
29/09/2009 09:51:22 PM
- 289 Views
Not what I read, but this whole thing is so messy...
29/09/2009 10:25:59 PM
- 388 Views
I don't remember which article it was from
29/09/2009 10:32:32 PM
- 265 Views
One thing that was clear
29/09/2009 11:08:43 PM
- 501 Views
Ah I didn't catch that
29/09/2009 11:15:06 PM
- 437 Views
Could you source that?
29/09/2009 11:18:46 PM
- 477 Views
it's one of the articles that's been linked
29/09/2009 11:59:02 PM
- 420 Views
CNN has it the way I described, but I don't know how good their info is. *NM*
30/09/2009 11:05:45 PM
- 132 Views
Yes, we do.....drugs & rape of a 13-year old
29/09/2009 07:10:02 PM
- 437 Views
you do know that just because you repeat something it doesn't instantly become true? *NM*
29/09/2009 07:11:03 PM
- 131 Views
Wow - I guess every allegation ever made by a prosecutor is true
29/09/2009 08:09:43 PM
- 346 Views
I guess you believe every criminal who says "I didn't do it".....
29/09/2009 08:18:29 PM
- 419 Views
Nope
29/09/2009 09:14:02 PM
- 329 Views
He admitted it.
29/09/2009 10:45:43 PM
- 472 Views
You don't get it do you?
29/09/2009 11:15:27 PM
- 442 Views
Seriously, are you related to Roman the Rapist?
30/09/2009 01:11:44 AM
- 440 Views
I want to go on record as saying: I really dislike agreeing with you
30/09/2009 05:03:24 AM
- 517 Views

Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
01/10/2009 12:23:53 AM
- 429 Views
Re: Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
01/10/2009 05:55:46 AM
- 477 Views
Honestly Amy, you know nothing whatsoever about my life or why I do things
01/10/2009 04:03:38 PM
- 449 Views
I think you're getting way out of line here, Amy. *NM*
01/10/2009 04:07:59 PM
- 260 Views
I agree, and already said the same once. It appears that was deleted. *NM*
01/10/2009 05:15:07 PM
- 291 Views
I think for the 1st time ever i'm actually stunned by the comments on this board.
29/09/2009 07:14:18 PM
- 378 Views
Oh but he didn't KNOW
29/09/2009 07:17:55 PM
- 351 Views
Ignorance doesn't have to be proven in court
29/09/2009 08:11:31 PM
- 297 Views
no you have back asswards
29/09/2009 08:14:36 PM
- 342 Views
You're talking ethics and then switch to law
29/09/2009 09:17:02 PM
- 312 Views
yes the law can be stupid but not so stupid that you can use the
29/09/2009 10:32:49 PM
- 340 Views
Oh it's EASILY that stupid and even stupider
29/09/2009 10:58:33 PM
- 477 Views
If the girl has to call and ask her mommy if she can stay late you should ask her age
30/09/2009 04:04:33 PM
- 322 Views
He knew her age. The photo-shoot was specifically looking at young girls.
30/09/2009 04:42:01 PM
- 432 Views
I think he's ignoring such trivial details as "that was the specific age being photographed" *NM*
30/09/2009 04:56:10 PM
- 256 Views
Of course he knew he age
30/09/2009 05:01:19 PM
- 435 Views
Obviously - because you say so right?
30/09/2009 11:25:18 PM
- 287 Views
Wow, way to make up 'facts'
30/09/2009 11:23:13 PM
- 515 Views
Way to go for a straw man
29/09/2009 07:45:44 PM
- 485 Views
No one has excused him. But there is no point any longer in going after him.
29/09/2009 08:15:42 PM
- 572 Views
Agreed - I can't believe people are defending this d-bag.....amazing!
*NM*
29/09/2009 08:25:05 PM
- 267 Views

well
29/09/2009 08:34:56 PM
- 450 Views
I'm all for the gray and considerin both sides.
29/09/2009 08:45:50 PM
- 352 Views
Ben Franklin once said
29/09/2009 09:30:16 PM
- 504 Views
*snort*
29/09/2009 10:02:13 PM
- 466 Views
I'd say you need to spend more time around lawyers
29/09/2009 10:40:05 PM
- 406 Views
Exactly Nossy
29/09/2009 09:20:14 PM
- 546 Views
I've decided I really don't care about this either way at all.
29/09/2009 08:38:14 PM
- 399 Views
It has an effect on good cinema *NM*
29/09/2009 08:52:58 PM
- 181 Views
There's a lot of misinformation flying around here.
29/09/2009 11:22:29 PM
- 486 Views
That would be more convincing if you didn't have incorrect information yourself.
29/09/2009 11:58:40 PM
- 307 Views

I just worked that out.
30/09/2009 12:07:43 AM
- 479 Views
Re: I just worked that out.
30/09/2009 12:28:13 AM
- 447 Views
Excellent - and done better than most of the rest of us. *NM*
30/09/2009 03:34:11 PM
- 273 Views
In my opinion...
30/09/2009 04:57:44 PM
- 424 Views
Can I just say...
30/09/2009 05:54:47 PM
- 443 Views
The state is also a vicitm
30/09/2009 06:17:22 PM
- 437 Views
Hardly, in this case
30/09/2009 11:57:48 PM
- 326 Views
He drugged and raped her.....please feel free to pass this along.....
*NM*
01/10/2009 12:23:49 AM
- 284 Views

you know your arguments would have more merit if you had a clue what your were talking about
01/10/2009 06:24:35 AM
- 294 Views
You should know what you are talking about before you post
01/10/2009 04:18:50 PM
- 500 Views
OK go learn something and then come back
01/10/2009 05:15:45 PM
- 472 Views
I note that you ignore the fact that I just proved you wrong...
01/10/2009 05:27:01 PM
- 405 Views
no you just mistated some crap that I ignored *sigh*
01/10/2009 06:30:03 PM
- 302 Views
Well - there's another accusation of pedophilia for being skeptical of a borked law case
01/10/2009 06:52:08 PM
- 288 Views
The girl and mother requested to cut a deal, so the 13-year old wouldn't have to testify.....
01/10/2009 04:28:49 PM
- 281 Views
This may help some of the argument, but sadly not much
01/10/2009 02:06:22 AM
- 461 Views
It's not just that he admitted to it in the plea bargain.
01/10/2009 03:10:37 AM
- 499 Views
Well this was the first proof I found that he actually did know her age around the court date
01/10/2009 04:16:19 PM
- 467 Views
Yes, looking at him very strangely.....he's jumping the shark big-time on this one!
01/10/2009 04:31:43 PM
- 320 Views
Good news - French government drops support for director Roman Polanski
01/10/2009 04:46:42 PM
- 456 Views
Not only that, but the DA that said he coached the Judge is now claiming he lied to the documentary
01/10/2009 07:26:30 PM
- 447 Views
Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
01/10/2009 06:59:36 PM
- 577 Views
Re: Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
01/10/2009 08:41:01 PM
- 345 Views
I agree the attacks on you personally were not warranted and were out of line.
03/10/2009 03:02:03 AM
- 492 Views