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Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? Joel Send a noteboard - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM

Your math is appalling regardless; do not quit your day jo—oh... crap.... :P

View original postIf you make $7.00 an hour, working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, that comes out to be $14,560 a year. If you invest 4%, that comes out to $48.00 a month. If you do that for 50 years – this is assuming that you never get a raise - you’d have ~$1,253,000. That would give you ~$8,300 a month after you retire, and when you die, your family still has over a million dollars.

$7/hrX40 hrs/weekX4 weeks/monthX0.04=$44.80/month. Still closer than the other figures you cited: $44.80/monthX12 months/yearX50 years=26,880=/=1,253,000. Saving every penny of a $14,560 annual income (which is ridiculous; it is below the federal poverty level for a family of just 2) only gets to $728,000. Maybe you meant some kind of investment with a 4% rate of return, but I honestly have no idea how you got to the number you did; 44.8/month compounded annually at 4% only reaches $85,356.78 in 50 years; compounded MONTHLY the first month ALONE reaches about 1/3 of the current SS trust fund by then.


View original postSocial Security’s monthly benefit for the same individual (via their online calculator) is $664. However, they were taking 15% (7.5% from the individual and 7.5% from the employer) of his income; almost 4 times as much money. With Social Security, when you die, you leave nothing but Social Security’s wonderfully generous $255 death benefit (payable only once per family), and unless you were fortunate enough to die on the first day of the month, someone has to reimburse the government for your last $644 check (no prorating over the month, even if you died on the last day) in full.

First of all, 7.5% of an individuals income plus the same from their employer is NOT taking 15% from an individual. Further, saving 4%/month of $14,560/year is STILL only $26,880. At $664/month, SS surpasses that in just 4.5 years even if we ignore the death benefit.

Your first sign of trouble should have been concluding someone earning less than federal poverty level can retire a millionaire. :shocked2:


View original postThe math is “..so simple even a caveman can do it.”

Then maybe you should call one. ;)
View original postSocial (in)Security is a complete rip-off, and there can be no debate about it; facts are facts.

Social security costs you 4 times as much, and returns about 1/12th the money.


Please tell me you are a marketer, not an actuary; I NEED that to be true. (8
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This message last edited by Joel on 04/03/2013 at 04:10:38 AM
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Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years? Joel - 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM 1500 Views
Medicare? *NM* Aisha - 28/02/2013 11:38:22 PM 636 Views
No, Medicare has only been around about half as long. Joel - 28/02/2013 11:56:32 PM 987 Views
Medicare has its own problems, and caused many more. You really do not want to have this debate. HyogaRott - 03/03/2013 03:03:15 PM 917 Views
No, I do not, because Medicare and torts are invariably scapegoated for all problems with healthcare Joel - 04/03/2013 12:52:37 AM 989 Views
I can argue with anyone on this (and have) btut first we need to break out that dictionary HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:45:06 AM 887 Views
I am sure you can and have; ability to form arguments does not automatically grant them validity. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:11 PM 974 Views
Like I said, short conversation, once everyone uses the same definitions. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:28:52 PM 973 Views
From the way you're shitting yourself with glee, I'm going to say Social Security. Cannoli - 01/03/2013 12:45:50 AM 1094 Views
Hot dog, we have a wiener! Joel - 01/03/2013 01:40:18 AM 1068 Views
Also unlike Ponzis, Social Security was not meant to profit—it just did anyway. For 75 years. Joel - 01/03/2013 01:55:46 AM 939 Views
It is a "Ponzi" by definition, any argument to the contrary just makes you look ignorant. HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:02:46 PM 999 Views
Wait: An insurer is saying insurance is a Ponzi scheme? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM 969 Views
You are making even lese sense than usual... Quite an acomplishment. *NM* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:31:39 AM 578 Views
Maybe, but my math usually checks, and I never have to explain what I omitted. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:55:50 PM 1063 Views
My math ALWAYS "checks" - it isn't personal, you are just making absolutely no sense, *NM* HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:27:11 PM 513 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it. Anonymous2000 - 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM 929 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. Joel - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM 1025 Views
Good lord my friend..... Anonymous2000 - 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM 954 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it. Joel - 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM 1018 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM* Isaac - 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM 524 Views
Yes he did. He has very poor reading comprehension skills. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 03/03/2013 01:07:59 AM 541 Views
I really do not think I did. Joel - 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM 1049 Views
I'm pretty confident you have Isaac - 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM 1024 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM 950 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that Isaac - 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM 1131 Views
It is neither an investment nor fraudulent. Joel - 12/03/2013 02:34:09 AM 1187 Views
Re: Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM 1020 Views
Fraud="money contributed is NOT invested for the contributor, but instead redistributed to others"? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:51:30 AM 962 Views
You can try and misrepresent what I have said all you want, you are still wrong. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:45:24 AM 1024 Views
Dude, how is QUOTING you misrepresenting you?! And why must I ALWAYS ask that in these threads? Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM 1015 Views
Well, can you get more wrong? HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:45:08 PM 920 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by Isaac - 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM 968 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? Joel - 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM 1001 Views
I don't think I'd be telling them anything they don't already know... I mostly agree with them Isaac - 02/03/2013 05:38:56 AM 1154 Views
Means testing is flat out WRONG, and the contribution limit is a sticky debate HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:43:09 PM 941 Views
Tell that to him not me, I didn't express an opinion and my implied one obviously doesn't favor it Isaac - 02/03/2013 05:28:14 PM 1048 Views
I was, I just hit the repy under the wrong post. He was the first to bering the two topics up. *NM* HyogaRott - 03/03/2013 04:09:34 AM 516 Views
It is insurance against old age poverty, not a longevity lottery. Joel - 04/03/2013 02:00:24 AM 1046 Views
It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM 1044 Views
Social Security Insurance; says so right on the label. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:33 PM 1180 Views
You can call it BedroomWindowVitamins but it does not change what it acutally IS. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:34:42 PM 938 Views
"Sustainable"=/="profitable;" bankruptcy was not always a given, as your fellows claim.. Joel - 04/03/2013 01:35:04 AM 944 Views
Sustainable often means profitable, they are not universally synonmous but both at once is ideal Isaac - 04/03/2013 12:25:45 PM 942 Views
That is the IDEAL, but NOT point: Sustainability needs no profit, yet profit ensures sustainability. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:48 PM 1392 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them random thoughts - 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM 993 Views
An ironic charge, since their defenses of those ideals typically suffer from the same defect. Joel - 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM 951 Views
I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. nyah, nyah, nyah HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:58:10 PM 898 Views
"Unsustainable"=/="meeting monthly obligations for 75 YEARS and still having $2.5 trillion left." Joel - 04/03/2013 01:03:09 AM 1027 Views
Please look up the definition of sustainable. Hint: "its worked so far" isn't it. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:25:19 AM 1014 Views
"As it is currently constructed/funded" is one HELL of a qualifier. Joel - 04/03/2013 04:41:30 AM 1062 Views
You just don't get it, or apparently are so in love with your political ideology you won't. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:58:15 AM 861 Views
I believe if you check civilizations record you will find the human population has steadily risen. Joel - 04/03/2013 05:08:38 AM 931 Views
*sigh* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 12:15:22 PM 929 Views
Birth RATES have fallen; POPULATION steadily rose in every period except the Black Deaths peak. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:36 PM 1228 Views
Re: Declining birth rates are the key HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:47:41 PM 1037 Views
Ironic that you would make my point while arguing against random thoughts - 04/03/2013 06:12:29 PM 866 Views
? Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:59 PM 1038 Views
you mistate his posistion and then rationalize that you know what he really meant random thoughts - 13/03/2013 12:06:44 PM 879 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return... HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM 923 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM 1083 Views
*sigh* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM 902 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill. Joel - 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM 959 Views
Here are some clues. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM 835 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. Joel - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM 971 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM 1095 Views
Indeed. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:59 PM 1011 Views
Re: Indeed. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 05:00:10 PM 1143 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement moondog - 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM 856 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything? HyogaRott - 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM 931 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? moondog - 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM 1018 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there. HyogaRott - 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM 940 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once? moondog - 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM 1068 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented. HyogaRott - 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM 999 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... moondog - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM 1043 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... HyogaRott - 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM 924 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this.... moondog - 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM 1229 Views
No loss. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:37:41 PM 868 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile? Stephen - 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM 932 Views
spoken like a true enemy of the state! moondog - 06/03/2013 12:54:38 AM 887 Views
Re: spoken like a true enemy of the state! Stephen - 08/03/2013 03:04:37 PM 943 Views
I was not trolling, but clarifying. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:48 PM 999 Views
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