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There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions Isaac Send a noteboard - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM

Affiliation tends to blind us to the other side, but I think on gun rights the left perennially forgets that the right is not seeking to change the law, the left is, and nothing is ever offered except a slightly lesser change. I don't want a national gun registry, but many of us might except one in exchange for something else. Minor horse trading is pretty common but nobody wants to do the big stuff anymore. Guns are a big issue to the right, a principal issue, what would the left trade of equal value?

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill Anonymous2000 - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1422 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics moondog - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 841 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* Roland00 - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 413 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... Anonymous2000 - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 706 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." moondog - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 714 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 750 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... moondog - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 661 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions Isaac - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 714 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 682 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? moondog - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 672 Views
Absolutely HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 739 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... Isaac - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 784 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 718 Views
Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so Isaac - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM 755 Views
1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional. moondog - 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM 712 Views
One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know. HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM 696 Views
all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns.... moondog - 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM 749 Views
Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread... HyogaRott - 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM 718 Views
i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point.... moondog - 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM 624 Views
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM 709 Views
"A well-regulated militia...." moondog - 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM 828 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively" HyogaRott - 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM 717 Views
we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible moondog - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM 710 Views
Feasibility is not the issue, it is the rule of law. HyogaRott - 27/03/2013 03:55:24 PM 772 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? moondog - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 791 Views
That would depend, something of equal value Isaac - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 688 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? moondog - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 957 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining Isaac - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 704 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining moondog - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 758 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining Isaac - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 839 Views
some answers moondog - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1072 Views
Re: some answers Isaac - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 849 Views
Re: the NRA moondog - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 697 Views
This is a matter of POV bias Isaac - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 629 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then moondog - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 691 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining Isaac - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 676 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) moondog - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 632 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) Isaac - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 893 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding moondog - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 851 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap Isaac - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 870 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... moondog - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1052 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try Isaac - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 670 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually moondog - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 655 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue Isaac - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 937 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... moondog - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 759 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you Isaac - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 637 Views
There are many more laws and regulations on the industry than you seem to be aware of. HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 03:58:19 PM 736 Views
the existing laws and how they are enforced are completely different problems moondog - 20/03/2013 05:32:31 PM 742 Views
I have no problems with actually enforcing existing laws, in fact I want to see that before new 1 *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 12:17:40 AM 369 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce random thoughts - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 690 Views
as with most laws, some amount of grandfathering will probably be necessary moondog - 20/03/2013 05:34:57 PM 661 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 368 Views
I can't argue that random thoughts - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 700 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting moondog - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 767 Views
what is high capacity? random thoughts - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 658 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit moondog - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 695 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* Nighthawk - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 722 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes Jeordam - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 671 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 361 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* Jeordam - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 343 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 368 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* Nighthawk - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 340 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 774 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 705 Views
*NM* ironclad - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 369 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers Isaac - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 708 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 681 Views
So what's your solution? Smaller sentences? Or death penalty for everybody? Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 06:33:13 PM 688 Views
I don't have a truly viable one. I just have a bunch of ideas that no one would want to enact. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:49:58 PM 691 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book Isaac - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 715 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 657 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop Isaac - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 705 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* Ghavrel - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 352 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice Isaac - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 835 Views
For what its worth.... Jeordam - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 666 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... callandor1000 - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 979 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 976 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... callandor1000 - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 938 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. HyogaRott - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 589 Views
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