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Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM

We have the Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms, not to keep and bear only certain specific weapons. Just like we have the protected right to freedom of the press, not freedom to print something on only a movable type hand powered printing press.

Too often this discussion gets parsed into the mind-frame of "do you NEED such and such weapon"; or "Why do you need such-n-such", when the real weight should be in the opposite direction. Because our Constitution declares that the citizens have the Right to keep and bear arms, and forbids the government to infringe upon that inherent Right, if the state desires to do so, it must have an overwhelmingly compelling, and specific, argument to be able to do so. There is no overwhelmingly compelling argument for banning ALL the US citizens from owning any of those specified weapons. Frankly I don't think that most of the existing gun ownership laws (and many other of our laws in fact)are within the intention of the Constitution.

As I've said before I agree that there are some common sense limitations that could exist. However, the attempted method of implementing them is horribly flawed. We can not let Congress pass laws the limit one of our Constitutionally protected Rights, because it seemed like a good idea at the time. By doing so we are opening the door for them to limit ANY of those other protected rights. IF someone feels that one of those Rights should be reduced in scope, then they need to make a much better argument, and get an amendment to our Constitution passed, not just pass an ordinary law.

We let it happen in the 30s from the fear of the mafia when the federal government virtually banned the real assault (fully automatic) weapons. In order to own one you must pay for an expensive federal license (as well as other heavy restrictions). If owning property, or paying a poll tax, infringes on a citizens Constitutional right to vote in an election, then an expensive federal license does the same thing to keeping an bearing arms.

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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1422 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 841 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 413 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 706 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 714 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 750 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 661 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 713 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 682 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 671 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 739 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 784 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 718 Views
1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional. - 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM 712 Views
One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know. - 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM 696 Views
all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns.... - 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM 749 Views
Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread... - 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM 718 Views
i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point.... - 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM 624 Views
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM 709 Views
"A well-regulated militia...." - 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM 828 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively" - 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM 717 Views
we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM 710 Views
Feasibility is not the issue, it is the rule of law. - 27/03/2013 03:55:24 PM 772 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 790 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 688 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 957 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 703 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 758 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 839 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1072 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 849 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 697 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 629 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 691 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 675 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 632 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 893 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 851 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 870 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1052 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 670 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 654 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 937 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 759 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 637 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 689 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 368 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 700 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 767 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 658 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 695 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 722 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 671 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 361 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 343 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 368 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 340 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 774 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 705 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 369 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 708 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 681 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 715 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 657 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 705 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 352 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 835 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 666 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 979 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 976 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 938 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 589 Views

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