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we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible moondog Send a noteboard - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM

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..and I was able to recycle that exact heading thanks to the magic of Mozilla's auto-complete. To find the full text of that conversation you will have to go back a few months to a different conversation. I don't feel like rehashing it here.

As for limitations on the other items listed in the Bill of Rights, I reference you again to Feinstein, specifically her response in the committee meeting to the when she replied that "No, of course not." when asked if she would apply the same rational for limiting speech, religion, or assembly as she is on guns.

Feinstein's bill, which is what this discussion was originally about, was not regulating gun ownership, it was banning all but a select few weapons. Weapons that, as you pointed out, are not regularly used in criminal activities.

You are apparently, like most in favor of gun regulations, forgetting, or ignoring, why we have the 2nd amendment. It is not for hunting, or sporting, or even self defense against criminals, it is intended as a check upon our own government. A disarmed population are not citizens, they are serfs. The 2nd amendment exists so that if the government of the US ever wanders into tyranny, the people can again rise up and get rid of them.


i also don't think that Feinstein believes there are no similar restrictions on the other amendments. If we take politicians at their word in such off-the-cuff moments, then we should go revisit things like GWB saying "a dictatorship would be easier". I didn't take it to mean he is actually going to instill a dictatorship, but I know quite a number of people who did, and who will still use it against him even though he has been out of office for a number of years now.

And if you think your AR-15s and whatever other guns you have are going to stop a drone from blasting you dead where you stand, you should probably stop to reconsider what you think tyranny looks like if the government ever decided they wanted to take you out. Not to mention the fact that if it came to an all-out civil war, you are going to have to be comfortable shooting dead your neighbors and friends in order for your side to win.

"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1442 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 857 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 420 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 723 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 732 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 776 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 688 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 730 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 700 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 694 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 758 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 804 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 741 Views
1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional. - 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM 729 Views
One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know. - 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM 714 Views
all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns.... - 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM 764 Views
Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread... - 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM 738 Views
i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point.... - 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM 646 Views
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM 726 Views
"A well-regulated militia...." - 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM 857 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively" - 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM 742 Views
we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM 730 Views
Feasibility is not the issue, it is the rule of law. - 27/03/2013 03:55:24 PM 790 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 812 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 707 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 975 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 721 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 787 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 868 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1097 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 874 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 719 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 652 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 710 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 704 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 647 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 909 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 868 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 886 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1072 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 700 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 683 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 958 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 792 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 654 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 709 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 378 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 718 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 787 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 678 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 709 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 739 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 698 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 371 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 354 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 374 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 347 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 791 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 723 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 377 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 725 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 696 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 734 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 675 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 726 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 361 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 866 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 685 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 997 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 994 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 963 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 610 Views

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