Active Users:176 Time:17/05/2024 08:14:03 AM
Okay, if you say 'logic dictates' like that, you'd better present the actual logic stream Isaac Send a noteboard - 20/04/2013 02:52:07 AM

I think I've commented on your tendency to state opinion as ironclad fact quite a few times of late but this is really getting absurd. I can say "Logic dictates mankind must colonize other worlds" but if anyone says 'why?' or we're already in a situation where that question being asked is practically a given, I don't just get to say that. I need to present the argument and if I'm using that sort of absolute tone it better be as a thorough list. And for the record, I really doubt we'll do much planet colonizing.

Your logic would dictate a necessity that guns could not be given or even borrowed one person to another and that even theft would have to be dealt with abnormally. Currently if I buy a book for a friend, I have no obligation to inform anyone of that transaction. Even with a car, it is only when I get it registered for usage on public roads that chain of ownership has to be established. Cars are a very unique case from a practical standpoint but from a legal one they aren't at all. I can transfer ownership of a car as casually as a book or computer but we require any vehicle on the public roads to be registered and for that reason, since cars sorts of require roads (and aren't the second thing the founders wrote down as a protected privilege, right after self-expression comes self-defense) you have to register one from a practical perspective and you need proof of ownership to do that. You don't need to register a tractor or golf cart to use them.

So you're talking about a major change in property law here too, don't just casually toss that aside as though it were beneath notice. It sets a precedent that the gov't has a right to track private property, a big huge one too since it's explicitly constitutionally protected property.


View original postcurrently only about 55-60% of gun sales are checked and only at licensed dealerships, guess who's living on that 40% which isn't? criminals aren't going to gun dealers unless they go with someone who can pass a background check. this constitutes a straw sale, and all but a handful of dealers recognize the situation and refuse to sell. there are still about a dozen dealers which have a long history of selling to criminals and straw buyers who are still in business. tell me again about enforcing the existing laws?

Ya know, you've said that repeatedly now too, about the small handful of dealers doing the illegal sales, and it is still bullshit. Bad enough you're convicting people who apparently the courts haven't but you're talking about someone's status as a criminal as an absolute thing without even offering the details of the cases. You just keep saying it, and the one case you did show me a few weeks back was clearly just a very weak case, in that case alleging crimes by a family member not the person you were accusing, sins of the father isn't in modern justice. In addition to the 2nd amendment there are some other amendments you seem to conveniently forget about. Search and seizure, reasonable doubt, trial by jury, innocent till proven guilty, etc. If the law isn't being enforced there are always one of 3 reasons in play. 1) Insufficient proof, 2) It is considered more trouble than it is worth, 3) Corruption. So before just saying this stuff as a given, why don't you prove it by listing those 12 cases you mention individually and explain which of the 3 you think applies along with the basics of evidence. Evidence mind you, not some journalist's personal rant. On top of that I'd really like to see how they stack up on rate of conviction, because for all I know there have been a thousand trials on these and you've got the 12 who skated, well lots of people skate on crimes at trial since we expect ironclad proof, better 10 guilty men go free then one innocent man, etc. 12 out 1000 convictions for instance would be freakishly good prosecution for most crimes.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 20/04/2013 at 02:57:06 AM
Reply to message
Obama embarrassed - Senate Gun Control Bill Fails..... - 18/04/2013 03:51:37 AM 925 Views
More importantly, they failed becasue it was just knee-jerk "must do something publicly" BS. - 18/04/2013 01:55:43 PM 490 Views
there is no law anywhere which can undo the past - 18/04/2013 03:12:14 PM 447 Views
Let me rephrase... None of them could have prevented a FUTURE attack. - 18/04/2013 04:37:43 PM 991 Views
nothing can prevent future attacks. the goal is to stop criminals getting guns and reduce fatalities - 18/04/2013 06:07:32 PM 389 Views
lol. I can't believe you made thatargument - 18/04/2013 08:46:45 PM 540 Views
EXACTLY, which is why all this legistation was garbage - 18/04/2013 08:47:35 PM 520 Views
that's right. because our right to be blown away trumps life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - 18/04/2013 09:06:32 PM 487 Views
Turn off your partisin blinders and listen to logic for once. - 19/04/2013 12:41:12 AM 483 Views
logic dictates that *ALL* gun sales be decided by background check - 19/04/2013 10:27:50 PM 376 Views
Okay, if you say 'logic dictates' like that, you'd better present the actual logic stream - 20/04/2013 02:52:07 AM 478 Views
you won't accept evidence because you're ok with proliferation of guns to criminals - 22/04/2013 07:31:32 PM 647 Views
More ranting and hyperbole - 22/04/2013 09:15:12 PM 522 Views
+1 - This is "feel good" legislation that accomplishes nothing..... *NM* - 18/04/2013 06:06:07 PM 267 Views
yep. republican obstructionism and cowardice knows no bounds.... - 18/04/2013 03:07:46 PM 465 Views
- 18/04/2013 03:15:15 PM 520 Views
You're being rather partisan here. And wrong to denigrate Republicans. - 18/04/2013 03:55:34 PM 542 Views
sorry, who is the minority party again? it's not the democrats - 18/04/2013 06:19:43 PM 526 Views
moondog is funny when his side is losing..... - 18/04/2013 06:55:07 PM 426 Views
So does your ignorance on how your government process functions. - 18/04/2013 04:46:53 PM 433 Views
don't play dumb, you are better than that - 18/04/2013 06:24:22 PM 413 Views
"an important" is not at all the same thing as "the most important." - 18/04/2013 04:10:47 PM 589 Views
I agree, BS polling like this (by either side) annoys me. - 18/04/2013 04:56:44 PM 376 Views
actually..... - 18/04/2013 06:25:31 PM 523 Views
It is a silly poll - 18/04/2013 09:21:25 PM 527 Views

Reply to Message