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Sorry, I don't see that. Legolas Send a noteboard - 26/07/2014 08:57:08 PM

View original postHamas does not want a return to the status quo. Hamas wants a full lifting of the blockade. Since the last war, they have strongly fortified their positions and dug in, preparing for this war. The problem is that as long as Hamas is dedicated to Israel's destruction, it would be beyond foolish to lift the blockade if they are still running Gaza. It would merely allow Iran to smuggle even heavier weapons in to allow Hamas to prepare for the next war, and the one after that, and the one after that. Like the Iranians who sent children to clear minefields during the Iran-Iraq War, Hamas doesn't care at all about the civilian population in Gaza. It's all about arming, fighting and getting more money from wealthy donors for doing so.

Hamas is not monolithic, of course, and it doesn't have a single leader calling the shots. From what we have seen ever since they grew from a terrorist organization into something resembling a political party, albeit with a terrorist wing, the various leaders take pretty much the kind of positions you would expect. Haniyeh became the political leader in the Gaza Strip, and while there is certainly still radical/jihadist rhetoric, he has also faced reality and made clear that Hamas can in fact live with a two state solution. Meshaal is more likely to make aggressive statements, what with being a leader in exile who doesn't have the every-day political business, and needing to ensure he remains in the spotlight. Though he, too, has endorsed a two state solution.

Radical organizations often grow more reasonable and willing to accept compromise in practice, but it may take much longer before they're willing to put a final, symbolic ending to their radicalism, changing their charter or official goals or that sort of thing. An obvious example is right next door - Likud's charter, last I checked, still demanded that the state of Israel control 100% of the territory of Mandate Palestine, and the Palestinians be damned (at one point they wanted Jordan as well).

And as I said to someone else - honestly, there is a rather wide range of compromises between just letting any kind of weapon into the Gaza Strip just like that, and a complete blockade with only the most urgently needed supplies allowed to pass - and even that not always. Same over the sea - ensuring that no heavy weapons are brought in doesn't exactly require you to block all ships or fire at fishermen who just want to fish in their own sea.

View original postI see that Israel has only one real option available: kill or capture all Hamas operatives in Gaza, reoccupy the whole territory briefly, destroy all tunnels, and turn the area over to Fatah, at which point the blockade could be lifted. Given that many Gazans hate Hamas already, that would be a far preferable solution to any negotiation with Hamas.

Given that many Gazans hate Hamas already, and that their foreign allies are either out of power, politically compromised due to murdering Sunnites on a massive scale in Syria, or simply have their hands full with other things, this was certainly a good time for Israel to get somewhere with Hamas. Through negotiations.

I suppose you're right that it's also a good time for a completely unnecessary bloodbath that will make peace even more unlikely, considering that whatever Israel does, Assad and ISIS are worse, so that's a good cover to have, and Hizbullah having its hands more than full is also convenient. If, that is, one thinks that peace between Israel and Palestine as a nation is bullshit and the real goal should be, well, whatever your goal is. A one state solution, possibly, which in fairness does have a few valid arguments going for it, but I don't think popular opinion on either side is much in favour, to put it mildly.

Those of us who do think that such peace should be the goal, are also realist enough to see that a Palestinian government that truly has the authority to make major deals, and to enforce them afterwards, inevitably needs to involve more than one party, and perhaps still more importantly can't be seen to be too blatantly Israel's lapdog. I can't really believe that you don't see that, hence I'm led to conclude that you are aiming for some other kind of outcome.

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Those morons in Gaza (i.e., Hamas) are at it again - - 18/07/2014 04:02:57 PM 1097 Views
If by awesome you mean execrable, then yes, you're right. - 18/07/2014 11:45:53 PM 602 Views
Sounds like someone doesn't like jews! - 19/07/2014 04:24:41 AM 543 Views
It's funny you should say that. - 19/07/2014 09:36:57 AM 616 Views
your criticism would be better applied to Palestine supporters - 19/07/2014 11:50:37 AM 522 Views
My criticism IS also applied to Palestine supporters. It's not an either/or deal. - 19/07/2014 09:03:51 PM 546 Views
Agreed on that much, certainly. - 23/07/2014 03:05:22 AM 670 Views
Well, look who's back in the game! - 23/07/2014 07:44:45 PM 767 Views
Haltingly.... - 07/08/2014 03:41:06 AM 597 Views
The only good thing about ancient interminable wars is that--more-- - 13/06/2015 11:40:48 PM 452 Views
Oh lord. - 22/06/2015 10:08:22 PM 524 Views
"'Dialing for Dollars' is looking for me" - 24/06/2015 04:48:51 AM 593 Views
At the risk of prompting another long ramble, I've no idea what that reference is to. - 24/06/2015 10:39:42 PM 486 Views
"Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?!" - 26/06/2015 12:41:48 PM 456 Views
I'm going to try to shorten and summarize this a bit... - 28/06/2015 11:21:28 PM 799 Views
I couldn't help but overhear... - 19/07/2014 01:13:01 PM 595 Views
Good, I was hoping you'd drop by! - 19/07/2014 08:33:44 PM 705 Views
I strongly beg to differ with your position re: Hamas - 26/07/2014 04:25:54 PM 470 Views
Sorry, I don't see that. - 26/07/2014 08:57:08 PM 554 Views
I guess if you believe the lies of Hamas your position makes sense. - 27/07/2014 03:20:03 PM 500 Views
+1 - 27/07/2014 04:00:05 PM 575 Views
I certainly don't believe everything they say, no. - 27/07/2014 06:43:51 PM 584 Views
the carrot and stick is somewhat apt, although israel should have given way more carrots to date - 22/07/2014 08:57:13 PM 602 Views
So Israel should back the least radical Palestinian faction & construct Palestinian infrastructure? - 23/07/2014 04:51:19 AM 564 Views
yes - 23/07/2014 05:04:58 PM 725 Views
I pretty much agree with everything you said. - 24/07/2014 09:46:22 AM 684 Views
Why do you hate America? - 23/07/2014 02:29:24 AM 571 Views
Bottom line - stop lobbing missles into Israel and the problem is solved. - 28/07/2014 03:35:46 AM 490 Views
It's a circle of violence. Both sides are the villian. - 31/07/2014 03:50:52 AM 601 Views

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