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Well that would be the difference... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 08/03/2017 08:54:59 PM

View original postI dare say transgender people know only too well what body and what genetics they have - it's not a delusion. They're not in denial about the 'reality of the situation'. The point is their mind, their inner self, doesn't match their body or their genetics (leaving aside the surprisingly large amount of people whose body and genetics have some degree of ambiguity and aren't entirely male or entirely female in the first place).

Actually, I would challenge that statement. They are in denial about the "reality of the situation". Look at their body. Look at their genetics. There is the reality that the rest of us can see and prove. They are spelling out some very basic things about reality. But you are correct, their mind, their inner self, doesn't match their body/genetics. We've already established that their mind is the one in error. You've already abdicated the point that their body dysmorphia is at the core of the situation. We treat people for other body dysmorphic issues. But this one we do not. We help people with other mental health issues, but this one we do not. Why?

When someone says they are a woman, yet their genetics and body say they are a man...a whole segment of society is all "Sure". However, when someone says "I'm fat. I'm never eating again." and they take steps in that direction...they loose huge amounts of weight...we take steps to help them correct to healthiness.


View original postSo I ask again, phrased in a different way but essentially the same question as before: would you not agree that a person's inner self should take priority over their body? Or is it just that you reject the possibility of someone's inner self having a different gender than the body they were born in? And in the second case, what would it take to make you acknowledge that possibility?

Well that would be the topic. Right from the get go, I would say that if their body and their "inner self" are in conflict, then one is wrong. So then which one do you consider more valid, verifiable, or otherwise sure? What do you use as your solid foundation, measuring stick, plumb bob, or whatever other analogy you want? The one with the evidence....?



View original postIt's not about getting in a huff. But depending on your answers to the questions in my previous paragraph - the same questions I tried asking before, just phrased differently - it's quite possible that we fundamentally disagree and wouldn't come any closer to agreement in even a hundred posts.

I'm almost sure that we fundamentally disagree. But that's not the purpose of our discussion...to change viewpoints of the other person. I asked a question, and I'm struggling to see answers that stand up to scrutiny and examination.

We aren't debating the merits of other aspects of society...even if they address a larger segment of the population. We aren't talking about pro/anti this or that social policy...even if those policies effect everyone. We are talking about the health and well-being of people who have been marginalized, ignored, attacked, or otherwise left to fend for themselves...and how we as a society are treating them. Everyone is deserving of compassion and understanding; everyone is deserving of the truth.

~Jeordam

ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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Self-Identification vs. Mental Health Issue *trigger warning* Jeordam - 06/03/2017 08:53:17 PM 741 Views
I have to say I'm very confused about what your question is... and I don't think it's just me. Legolas - 07/03/2017 12:04:27 AM 470 Views
Yes, I'm talking about... Jeordam - 07/03/2017 05:03:18 PM 472 Views
Okay, clear. Legolas - 07/03/2017 06:50:00 PM 480 Views
<3 *NM* nossy - 07/03/2017 06:57:23 PM 220 Views
Mind over Matter? Jeordam - 07/03/2017 09:06:53 PM 455 Views
Mind over body might've been more apt. I believe I did answer your question actually. Legolas - 07/03/2017 10:41:01 PM 525 Views
Let's be clear.... Jeordam - 07/03/2017 11:17:02 PM 436 Views
By all means. Legolas - 07/03/2017 11:58:41 PM 439 Views
Well that's the crux of the topic isn't it.... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 05:48:50 PM 381 Views
That takes us right back to body vs mind, doesn't it? Legolas - 08/03/2017 07:13:32 PM 421 Views
Well that would be the difference... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 08:54:59 PM 463 Views
So do tell me what in fact the purpose of our discussion is, then? Legolas - 08/03/2017 09:40:09 PM 433 Views
What can I possibly say? Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:45:54 PM 419 Views
There's a distinction to be made with eating disorders. Ghavrel - 08/03/2017 08:31:08 PM 432 Views
That brings us all the way back around.... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 09:05:40 PM 463 Views
Because nossy - 08/03/2017 09:30:37 PM 454 Views
Two things... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:50:32 PM 408 Views
you're missing a rather obvious difference, aren't you? damookster - 08/03/2017 09:50:09 PM 436 Views
Yeah, Snoop was just saying the same. nossy - 08/03/2017 10:14:41 PM 485 Views
Well now we are bridging a rather big gap.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 07:12:26 PM 464 Views
Re: Well now we are bridging a rather big gap.... nossy - 09/03/2017 08:52:30 PM 543 Views
So two conversations now..... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:39:55 PM 445 Views
Re: So two conversations now..... nossy - 09/03/2017 10:23:39 PM 428 Views
And this is what you're overlooking.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 10:47:47 PM 461 Views
I could be wrong nossy - 09/03/2017 11:15:22 PM 435 Views
Sex vs Gender Jeordam - 09/03/2017 11:33:54 PM 444 Views
So this is an interesting point..... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:56:12 PM 437 Views
Sure about that? damookster - 09/03/2017 08:53:14 PM 423 Views
It's a mater of persepctive.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:12:09 PM 432 Views
wrong damookster - 09/03/2017 09:41:53 PM 373 Views
Sure. Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:57:48 PM 465 Views
sure, could be damookster - 09/03/2017 11:56:31 PM 399 Views
I feel like this has been said several times already, in several ways Sareitha Sedai - 10/03/2017 04:10:27 PM 435 Views
It has been said, and I understand what is being said... Jeordam - 10/03/2017 06:01:06 PM 439 Views
Re: It has been said, and I understand what is being said... Sareitha Sedai - 10/03/2017 07:58:57 PM 442 Views
I find your wording problematic and agenda driven. damookster - 07/03/2017 11:58:03 PM 462 Views
I appolozie if I offended Jeordam - 08/03/2017 06:18:41 PM 432 Views
no worries damookster - 08/03/2017 06:36:10 PM 454 Views
It always goes from it doesn't hurt anyone to the whole world has to change accommodate me *NM* random thoughts - 10/03/2017 02:46:38 AM 267 Views
That's true - doesn't change the issue as such but certainly there's intolerance on that side too. *NM* Legolas - 10/03/2017 07:45:43 AM 209 Views
Both extremes are dangerous random thoughts - 10/03/2017 12:59:41 PM 479 Views
Take your trigger warnings back to tumblr where they belong ßelals Girl - 07/03/2017 12:21:05 PM 542 Views
*ha* Jeordam - 07/03/2017 05:04:10 PM 458 Views
I self-identify as a deity, so I need you to use My preferred pronouns in reference to Myself Cannoli - 07/03/2017 05:15:56 PM 392 Views
So I could self-identify aerocontrols - 08/03/2017 12:36:39 AM 378 Views
I read through this thread. kazetaran - 10/03/2017 12:44:03 AM 593 Views
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