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Well that would be the difference... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 08/03/2017 08:54:59 PM

View original postI dare say transgender people know only too well what body and what genetics they have - it's not a delusion. They're not in denial about the 'reality of the situation'. The point is their mind, their inner self, doesn't match their body or their genetics (leaving aside the surprisingly large amount of people whose body and genetics have some degree of ambiguity and aren't entirely male or entirely female in the first place).

Actually, I would challenge that statement. They are in denial about the "reality of the situation". Look at their body. Look at their genetics. There is the reality that the rest of us can see and prove. They are spelling out some very basic things about reality. But you are correct, their mind, their inner self, doesn't match their body/genetics. We've already established that their mind is the one in error. You've already abdicated the point that their body dysmorphia is at the core of the situation. We treat people for other body dysmorphic issues. But this one we do not. We help people with other mental health issues, but this one we do not. Why?

When someone says they are a woman, yet their genetics and body say they are a man...a whole segment of society is all "Sure". However, when someone says "I'm fat. I'm never eating again." and they take steps in that direction...they loose huge amounts of weight...we take steps to help them correct to healthiness.


View original postSo I ask again, phrased in a different way but essentially the same question as before: would you not agree that a person's inner self should take priority over their body? Or is it just that you reject the possibility of someone's inner self having a different gender than the body they were born in? And in the second case, what would it take to make you acknowledge that possibility?

Well that would be the topic. Right from the get go, I would say that if their body and their "inner self" are in conflict, then one is wrong. So then which one do you consider more valid, verifiable, or otherwise sure? What do you use as your solid foundation, measuring stick, plumb bob, or whatever other analogy you want? The one with the evidence....?



View original postIt's not about getting in a huff. But depending on your answers to the questions in my previous paragraph - the same questions I tried asking before, just phrased differently - it's quite possible that we fundamentally disagree and wouldn't come any closer to agreement in even a hundred posts.

I'm almost sure that we fundamentally disagree. But that's not the purpose of our discussion...to change viewpoints of the other person. I asked a question, and I'm struggling to see answers that stand up to scrutiny and examination.

We aren't debating the merits of other aspects of society...even if they address a larger segment of the population. We aren't talking about pro/anti this or that social policy...even if those policies effect everyone. We are talking about the health and well-being of people who have been marginalized, ignored, attacked, or otherwise left to fend for themselves...and how we as a society are treating them. Everyone is deserving of compassion and understanding; everyone is deserving of the truth.

~Jeordam

ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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Self-Identification vs. Mental Health Issue *trigger warning* Jeordam - 06/03/2017 08:53:17 PM 1068 Views
I have to say I'm very confused about what your question is... and I don't think it's just me. Legolas - 07/03/2017 12:04:27 AM 791 Views
Yes, I'm talking about... Jeordam - 07/03/2017 05:03:18 PM 804 Views
Okay, clear. Legolas - 07/03/2017 06:50:00 PM 788 Views
<3 *NM* nossy - 07/03/2017 06:57:23 PM 389 Views
Mind over Matter? Jeordam - 07/03/2017 09:06:53 PM 769 Views
Mind over body might've been more apt. I believe I did answer your question actually. Legolas - 07/03/2017 10:41:01 PM 863 Views
Let's be clear.... Jeordam - 07/03/2017 11:17:02 PM 747 Views
By all means. Legolas - 07/03/2017 11:58:41 PM 780 Views
Well that's the crux of the topic isn't it.... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 05:48:50 PM 696 Views
That takes us right back to body vs mind, doesn't it? Legolas - 08/03/2017 07:13:32 PM 738 Views
Well that would be the difference... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 08:54:59 PM 789 Views
So do tell me what in fact the purpose of our discussion is, then? Legolas - 08/03/2017 09:40:09 PM 728 Views
What can I possibly say? Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:45:54 PM 736 Views
There's a distinction to be made with eating disorders. Ghavrel - 08/03/2017 08:31:08 PM 747 Views
That brings us all the way back around.... Jeordam - 08/03/2017 09:05:40 PM 784 Views
Because nossy - 08/03/2017 09:30:37 PM 797 Views
Two things... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:50:32 PM 737 Views
you're missing a rather obvious difference, aren't you? damookster - 08/03/2017 09:50:09 PM 754 Views
Yeah, Snoop was just saying the same. nossy - 08/03/2017 10:14:41 PM 797 Views
Well now we are bridging a rather big gap.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 07:12:26 PM 764 Views
Re: Well now we are bridging a rather big gap.... nossy - 09/03/2017 08:52:30 PM 867 Views
So two conversations now..... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:39:55 PM 752 Views
Re: So two conversations now..... nossy - 09/03/2017 10:23:39 PM 750 Views
And this is what you're overlooking.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 10:47:47 PM 776 Views
I could be wrong nossy - 09/03/2017 11:15:22 PM 746 Views
Sex vs Gender Jeordam - 09/03/2017 11:33:54 PM 729 Views
So this is an interesting point..... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 05:56:12 PM 767 Views
Sure about that? damookster - 09/03/2017 08:53:14 PM 735 Views
It's a mater of persepctive.... Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:12:09 PM 752 Views
wrong damookster - 09/03/2017 09:41:53 PM 676 Views
Sure. Jeordam - 09/03/2017 09:57:48 PM 798 Views
sure, could be damookster - 09/03/2017 11:56:31 PM 695 Views
I feel like this has been said several times already, in several ways Sareitha Sedai - 10/03/2017 04:10:27 PM 738 Views
It has been said, and I understand what is being said... Jeordam - 10/03/2017 06:01:06 PM 754 Views
Re: It has been said, and I understand what is being said... Sareitha Sedai - 10/03/2017 07:58:57 PM 743 Views
I find your wording problematic and agenda driven. damookster - 07/03/2017 11:58:03 PM 753 Views
I appolozie if I offended Jeordam - 08/03/2017 06:18:41 PM 753 Views
no worries damookster - 08/03/2017 06:36:10 PM 764 Views
It always goes from it doesn't hurt anyone to the whole world has to change accommodate me *NM* random thoughts - 10/03/2017 02:46:38 AM 447 Views
That's true - doesn't change the issue as such but certainly there's intolerance on that side too. *NM* Legolas - 10/03/2017 07:45:43 AM 386 Views
Both extremes are dangerous random thoughts - 10/03/2017 12:59:41 PM 804 Views
Take your trigger warnings back to tumblr where they belong ßelals Girl - 07/03/2017 12:21:05 PM 893 Views
*ha* Jeordam - 07/03/2017 05:04:10 PM 793 Views
I self-identify as a deity, so I need you to use My preferred pronouns in reference to Myself Cannoli - 07/03/2017 05:15:56 PM 708 Views
So I could self-identify aerocontrols - 08/03/2017 12:36:39 AM 709 Views
I read through this thread. kazetaran - 10/03/2017 12:44:03 AM 1064 Views
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