Active Users:876 Time:03/08/2026 01:58:23 AM
Very interesting article. One thing that's struck me more and more about WW1 is... Legolas Send a noteboard - 14/03/2017 06:34:14 PM

View original postI have to wonder what European history would have been like had WWI ended like the Franco-Prussian War had ended. And without Wilson inadvertently causing so many problems for the twentieth century. Would there have been an EU? Would we all be decades behind, scientifically, without the competition between the US and the USSR? I think there would still have been a war between Imperial Japan and the US. Maybe. Would the US and Europe still be colonial powers? Lots of what ifs to ponder. Would nations all over have been better off without the scourge of Communist/Totalitarian regimes? Perhaps even worse regimes would have arisen. Who knows?

... exactly this contrast between the Franco-Prussian war (and Prussia's wars with Austria and Denmark shortly before, as well as other wars of the period). Because when the war started out, people did expect something like that - a few months, maybe half a year of fighting, a quick and clear victory for one side, and then some relatively modest demands in the peace treaty. And for a moment in late August 1914 when the French and the British Expeditionary Force were on the verge of letting the Germans break through to take Paris, while in the east the Russians were getting destroyed at Tannenberg, that outcome looked quite possible. Maybe a quick French/Russian defeat would've been better than what actually happened - then again, more likely it would just have led to a rematch down the line anyway. Perhaps not quite as spectacularly horrible and lethal as the WW1-WW2 combination, but bad enough.

But yeah, at the time Kerensky got to power, I'd say aside from more specific reasons, the biggest reason of them all to keep fighting was that everyone was in too deep. The losses has become too staggering to say, you know what, let's walk away from this and go back to the status quo. It's easy to see from our perspective how Kerensky should have sued for peace, even at a price higher than just the status quo, considering how the challenges for Russia were already so great even without the war and he needed all his energy and political capital domestically. But not surprising that it took a much more radical break with the past for Russia to get a government willing to cut its losses - a government that didn't identify much if at all with the one that had started the war and hence could ignore its war goals. In that sense actually a bit similar to Germany in the final months of the war in a much less dramatic way - they had to get various people out of the way before they could agree to the armistice.

View original postAnyway, I think a lot of people in the US may not know as much about Russian history as they do about other histories. This series of articles (RED CENTURY) might be of interest for many here.

Not just people in the US. But definitely of interest.

Reply to message
The February Revolution and Kerensky’s Missed Opportunity - 13/03/2017 09:37:00 PM 946 Views
Fascinating stuff - 13/03/2017 10:52:58 PM 533 Views
Who knows? It could have been worse off. - 13/03/2017 11:37:54 PM 630 Views
What's your opinion on Lenin? - 14/03/2017 02:06:59 AM 577 Views
Lenin. A monster. - 14/03/2017 12:55:18 PM 596 Views
Thanks. I'll ask him too. *NM* - 14/03/2017 03:01:36 PM 287 Views
Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky were all bloodthirsty mass murderers. - 14/03/2017 08:59:06 PM 670 Views
That's fascinating. But give me a book recommendation! - 14/03/2017 09:15:57 PM 532 Views
Start with a general history of Russia - 14/03/2017 10:17:22 PM 675 Views
Excellent. Thank you. It's next on the list. - 15/03/2017 02:11:14 AM 627 Views
Russian history is as depressing as they come. - 15/03/2017 12:08:15 PM 599 Views
Read Figes first, I suppose. - 14/03/2017 10:55:23 PM 571 Views
Thanks, Tom. I've been putting off reading good literature because of my unfamiliarity with Russia. *NM* - 15/03/2017 02:12:10 AM 280 Views
Which books have you put off reading? *NM* - 15/03/2017 12:05:32 PM 268 Views
DEMONS and THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV are the big two. - 15/03/2017 02:58:13 PM 554 Views
You don't necessarily need to know the history. - 15/03/2017 03:15:38 PM 591 Views
I'm always afraid I'm missing something critical, though! - 15/03/2017 03:50:59 PM 551 Views
Annotations are amazing. My eBook version of War and Peace was the same. - 15/03/2017 04:03:59 PM 568 Views
My High School English teacher neglected Russian literature. - 16/03/2017 01:46:29 AM 536 Views
Hmmmm. - 16/03/2017 01:18:14 PM 563 Views
Tolstoy was a reprehensible human being - 15/03/2017 04:02:52 PM 543 Views
I had no idea. I was under the impression he was deeply devout. - 16/03/2017 01:47:43 AM 564 Views
Here's one example: - 16/03/2017 02:06:45 AM 563 Views
Good lord. The man sounds deranged. But that's fascinating! Is there a good biography on him? *NM* - 16/03/2017 07:50:10 AM 274 Views
Pavel Basinsky's bio is best - 16/03/2017 02:46:47 PM 755 Views
Getting it now. Thanks. *NM* - 16/03/2017 11:06:25 PM 272 Views
For what it's worth, I read Lenin & Trotsky as genuine idealists, while Stalin as just a thug - 15/03/2017 11:16:36 AM 636 Views
I think that's entirely incorrect. - 15/03/2017 04:00:54 PM 643 Views
I didn't mean stupid or brutish, I meant more like a mafia don than a statesman - 16/03/2017 12:18:34 PM 525 Views
Well if you want to completely redefine the phrase "just a thug", perhaps you're right - 16/03/2017 02:43:38 PM 546 Views
Good point - 16/03/2017 09:52:29 PM 684 Views
I hear what you're saying, but... - 16/03/2017 11:53:19 PM 570 Views
Attempt at clarification - 17/03/2017 12:55:03 AM 658 Views
Hehehe..."Fuck off" - 19/03/2017 05:23:49 PM 609 Views
Seems kind of nonsensical - 14/03/2017 01:33:49 AM 656 Views
Good reply. - 14/03/2017 12:57:47 PM 645 Views
They weren't really wrong - 14/03/2017 01:30:07 PM 656 Views
I do enjoy historical "what if" situations. - 14/03/2017 01:47:27 AM 542 Views
Hi there. - 14/03/2017 01:02:44 PM 519 Views
I still think democracy among those insidiously intrusive Western values Russia resists so fiercely - 14/03/2017 02:37:39 PM 651 Views
Is it your persistant anti-Russia bias that makes you so dogmatic? - 14/03/2017 02:51:23 PM 552 Views
I have no problem with Russia, only its government - 14/03/2017 03:07:14 PM 674 Views
Really? - 14/03/2017 03:15:10 PM 579 Views
Very interesting article. One thing that's struck me more and more about WW1 is... - 14/03/2017 06:34:14 PM 684 Views
What a terrible article - 14/03/2017 08:04:50 PM 542 Views
I thought you would think this way. - 15/03/2017 12:04:57 PM 631 Views
I can't decide what I think about Evans - 15/03/2017 04:10:05 PM 539 Views

Reply to Message