Active Users:1502 Time:14/03/2026 07:05:05 PM
Very interesting article. One thing that's struck me more and more about WW1 is... Legolas Send a noteboard - 14/03/2017 06:34:14 PM

View original postI have to wonder what European history would have been like had WWI ended like the Franco-Prussian War had ended. And without Wilson inadvertently causing so many problems for the twentieth century. Would there have been an EU? Would we all be decades behind, scientifically, without the competition between the US and the USSR? I think there would still have been a war between Imperial Japan and the US. Maybe. Would the US and Europe still be colonial powers? Lots of what ifs to ponder. Would nations all over have been better off without the scourge of Communist/Totalitarian regimes? Perhaps even worse regimes would have arisen. Who knows?

... exactly this contrast between the Franco-Prussian war (and Prussia's wars with Austria and Denmark shortly before, as well as other wars of the period). Because when the war started out, people did expect something like that - a few months, maybe half a year of fighting, a quick and clear victory for one side, and then some relatively modest demands in the peace treaty. And for a moment in late August 1914 when the French and the British Expeditionary Force were on the verge of letting the Germans break through to take Paris, while in the east the Russians were getting destroyed at Tannenberg, that outcome looked quite possible. Maybe a quick French/Russian defeat would've been better than what actually happened - then again, more likely it would just have led to a rematch down the line anyway. Perhaps not quite as spectacularly horrible and lethal as the WW1-WW2 combination, but bad enough.

But yeah, at the time Kerensky got to power, I'd say aside from more specific reasons, the biggest reason of them all to keep fighting was that everyone was in too deep. The losses has become too staggering to say, you know what, let's walk away from this and go back to the status quo. It's easy to see from our perspective how Kerensky should have sued for peace, even at a price higher than just the status quo, considering how the challenges for Russia were already so great even without the war and he needed all his energy and political capital domestically. But not surprising that it took a much more radical break with the past for Russia to get a government willing to cut its losses - a government that didn't identify much if at all with the one that had started the war and hence could ignore its war goals. In that sense actually a bit similar to Germany in the final months of the war in a much less dramatic way - they had to get various people out of the way before they could agree to the armistice.

View original postAnyway, I think a lot of people in the US may not know as much about Russian history as they do about other histories. This series of articles (RED CENTURY) might be of interest for many here.

Not just people in the US. But definitely of interest.

Reply to message
The February Revolution and Kerensky’s Missed Opportunity - 13/03/2017 09:37:00 PM 879 Views
Fascinating stuff - 13/03/2017 10:52:58 PM 468 Views
Who knows? It could have been worse off. - 13/03/2017 11:37:54 PM 562 Views
What's your opinion on Lenin? - 14/03/2017 02:06:59 AM 517 Views
Lenin. A monster. - 14/03/2017 12:55:18 PM 535 Views
Thanks. I'll ask him too. *NM* - 14/03/2017 03:01:36 PM 253 Views
Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky were all bloodthirsty mass murderers. - 14/03/2017 08:59:06 PM 586 Views
That's fascinating. But give me a book recommendation! - 14/03/2017 09:15:57 PM 474 Views
Start with a general history of Russia - 14/03/2017 10:17:22 PM 597 Views
Excellent. Thank you. It's next on the list. - 15/03/2017 02:11:14 AM 543 Views
Russian history is as depressing as they come. - 15/03/2017 12:08:15 PM 537 Views
Read Figes first, I suppose. - 14/03/2017 10:55:23 PM 499 Views
Thanks, Tom. I've been putting off reading good literature because of my unfamiliarity with Russia. *NM* - 15/03/2017 02:12:10 AM 238 Views
Which books have you put off reading? *NM* - 15/03/2017 12:05:32 PM 228 Views
DEMONS and THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV are the big two. - 15/03/2017 02:58:13 PM 494 Views
You don't necessarily need to know the history. - 15/03/2017 03:15:38 PM 529 Views
I'm always afraid I'm missing something critical, though! - 15/03/2017 03:50:59 PM 475 Views
Annotations are amazing. My eBook version of War and Peace was the same. - 15/03/2017 04:03:59 PM 496 Views
My High School English teacher neglected Russian literature. - 16/03/2017 01:46:29 AM 461 Views
Hmmmm. - 16/03/2017 01:18:14 PM 501 Views
Tolstoy was a reprehensible human being - 15/03/2017 04:02:52 PM 469 Views
I had no idea. I was under the impression he was deeply devout. - 16/03/2017 01:47:43 AM 495 Views
Here's one example: - 16/03/2017 02:06:45 AM 493 Views
Good lord. The man sounds deranged. But that's fascinating! Is there a good biography on him? *NM* - 16/03/2017 07:50:10 AM 238 Views
Pavel Basinsky's bio is best - 16/03/2017 02:46:47 PM 682 Views
Getting it now. Thanks. *NM* - 16/03/2017 11:06:25 PM 228 Views
For what it's worth, I read Lenin & Trotsky as genuine idealists, while Stalin as just a thug - 15/03/2017 11:16:36 AM 559 Views
I think that's entirely incorrect. - 15/03/2017 04:00:54 PM 562 Views
I didn't mean stupid or brutish, I meant more like a mafia don than a statesman - 16/03/2017 12:18:34 PM 454 Views
Well if you want to completely redefine the phrase "just a thug", perhaps you're right - 16/03/2017 02:43:38 PM 480 Views
Good point - 16/03/2017 09:52:29 PM 608 Views
I hear what you're saying, but... - 16/03/2017 11:53:19 PM 500 Views
Attempt at clarification - 17/03/2017 12:55:03 AM 588 Views
Hehehe..."Fuck off" - 19/03/2017 05:23:49 PM 535 Views
Seems kind of nonsensical - 14/03/2017 01:33:49 AM 584 Views
Good reply. - 14/03/2017 12:57:47 PM 576 Views
They weren't really wrong - 14/03/2017 01:30:07 PM 594 Views
I do enjoy historical "what if" situations. - 14/03/2017 01:47:27 AM 480 Views
Hi there. - 14/03/2017 01:02:44 PM 463 Views
I still think democracy among those insidiously intrusive Western values Russia resists so fiercely - 14/03/2017 02:37:39 PM 581 Views
Is it your persistant anti-Russia bias that makes you so dogmatic? - 14/03/2017 02:51:23 PM 488 Views
I have no problem with Russia, only its government - 14/03/2017 03:07:14 PM 610 Views
Really? - 14/03/2017 03:15:10 PM 513 Views
Very interesting article. One thing that's struck me more and more about WW1 is... - 14/03/2017 06:34:14 PM 615 Views
What a terrible article - 14/03/2017 08:04:50 PM 476 Views
I thought you would think this way. - 15/03/2017 12:04:57 PM 559 Views
I can't decide what I think about Evans - 15/03/2017 04:10:05 PM 451 Views

Reply to Message