Again, we're back to "how would you prefer to do it?"
Joel Send a noteboard - 09/02/2010 09:42:51 AM
We're sorting of hitting the 'arguing about two seperate issues' point.
What I am saying is that the HDI is a fairly legit way to measure a country, but not to contrast to others as a means of fine comparison. In many ways it's basically worthless, because it's pretty obvious and unnecessary to compare dirt hovel places with western countries, and the western countries are simply too close to measure policy off of. You don't need the HDI, nor does it serve any useful purpose, if you're trying to show Country X has a superior literacy program to Country Y. The specific program itself can be used and really is the only useful standard. The thing is not accurate in that way, not to say 'Ah look, X had .01 higher on the HDI, let's assume that is a sign of superior policy' because it just isn't accurate enough.
I want to emphasize, yes, 1/3 can carry on beyond 1 digit, but only if it's been treated as a clean derivative. There has to be a justificaiton for that. 1/2mv^2 can easily be shown to be the integral of mv, the 1/2 comes from that, it is the clean byproduct of a mathematical equation, not a empirical result. It is not a coefficient that has simply been taken from the data, it is very specifically 1/2. Saying 1/3 for weighting is simply an unjustified assumption, unproven, therefore no more or less accurate than saying 1/3.0002 or 1/3.4. Does it make sense to equally weight them when no legitimate justification exists for more accurate weighting and they all seem very important? Yes, sure. But that doesn't mean it becomes highly accurate as a measure of anything but itself. And the more one tries to yank specific comparisons of policy out, the more one is subject to biased interpretations and corrections as well as giving people a big reason to try it. There are simply too many variables in it that have distortion or are distortable to compare, not only do you have the 'no more accurate than least accurate' problem but also that innaccuracies stack.
If I measure the momentum of object by it's mass and velocity, and each is only measurable to within 1%, the momentum isn't accurate to 1%, it's accurate to the range of the of their combined inaccuracy.
This isn't something subject to debate, the variables involved, while allowing for a decent measure of accuracy for HDI, do not allow the HDI to be used as a useful tool for comparison of policy. You are, I believe, trying to argue the accuracy of the HDI itself, I am arguing is accuracy as a useful index for comparison. There's no polite way to put this, but in this regard, I am right. There can be no argument without empirical proof that 1/3 is a more accurate value than 1/4 or .356, and no such empirical proof exists. As such a change in waiting would noticeably alter the rankings, the HDI can not possibly be considered anything but a loose benchmark, and therefore the ranking order as it is can not be used as a legitimate measure of policy between parallel entities.
What I am saying is that the HDI is a fairly legit way to measure a country, but not to contrast to others as a means of fine comparison. In many ways it's basically worthless, because it's pretty obvious and unnecessary to compare dirt hovel places with western countries, and the western countries are simply too close to measure policy off of. You don't need the HDI, nor does it serve any useful purpose, if you're trying to show Country X has a superior literacy program to Country Y. The specific program itself can be used and really is the only useful standard. The thing is not accurate in that way, not to say 'Ah look, X had .01 higher on the HDI, let's assume that is a sign of superior policy' because it just isn't accurate enough.
I want to emphasize, yes, 1/3 can carry on beyond 1 digit, but only if it's been treated as a clean derivative. There has to be a justificaiton for that. 1/2mv^2 can easily be shown to be the integral of mv, the 1/2 comes from that, it is the clean byproduct of a mathematical equation, not a empirical result. It is not a coefficient that has simply been taken from the data, it is very specifically 1/2. Saying 1/3 for weighting is simply an unjustified assumption, unproven, therefore no more or less accurate than saying 1/3.0002 or 1/3.4. Does it make sense to equally weight them when no legitimate justification exists for more accurate weighting and they all seem very important? Yes, sure. But that doesn't mean it becomes highly accurate as a measure of anything but itself. And the more one tries to yank specific comparisons of policy out, the more one is subject to biased interpretations and corrections as well as giving people a big reason to try it. There are simply too many variables in it that have distortion or are distortable to compare, not only do you have the 'no more accurate than least accurate' problem but also that innaccuracies stack.
If I measure the momentum of object by it's mass and velocity, and each is only measurable to within 1%, the momentum isn't accurate to 1%, it's accurate to the range of the of their combined inaccuracy.
This isn't something subject to debate, the variables involved, while allowing for a decent measure of accuracy for HDI, do not allow the HDI to be used as a useful tool for comparison of policy. You are, I believe, trying to argue the accuracy of the HDI itself, I am arguing is accuracy as a useful index for comparison. There's no polite way to put this, but in this regard, I am right. There can be no argument without empirical proof that 1/3 is a more accurate value than 1/4 or .356, and no such empirical proof exists. As such a change in waiting would noticeably alter the rankings, the HDI can not possibly be considered anything but a loose benchmark, and therefore the ranking order as it is can not be used as a legitimate measure of policy between parallel entities.
Obviously specific areas of each countries policy can be compared directly, but how should we compare overall effectiveness of all policies? HDI isn't perfect, but it still seems like the best method for now because it uses real and verifiable data from multiple areas in non-random and unbiased ways, without becoming a laundry list that spends so much time collecting so much data on so many aspects of life that there's never a chance to actually analyze it. Note also that the three factors measured are added to produce a final rating; if I have three numbers that are 99% accurate and add them together, how much extra imprecision can I POSSIBLY introduce? If ALL of them are off by 0.9% (the maximum, since we know their accurate down to a precision of 1%) and in the same direction, the final result will be off by a maximum 2.7%, which isn't much (and rather unlikely regardless, though still possible. ) The real question with HDI keeps coming back to whether an impartial 1/3 waiting is valid, which we can debate, but there are legitimate and real reasons for that, and any alternative without some basis would only make it more rather than less inaccurate.
But let's set that aside, because we're probably not going to get anywhere debating its overall validity. We know the relationship between PPP GDP/capita and life expectancy is generally proportional, so the question is whether higher levels of the latter relative to the rest of the developed world justifies lower levels of the former. That sounds an awful lot like supplying marginal returns at the high end of income at the cost of a lot more sickness and death at the low end. Again we're back to the Xbox analogy; in America, China or Angola every Xbox purchased is that much less money for vaccines, and vice versa, as you noted. Where the priority lies often depends on things like whether one has the means to purchase BOTH or NEITHER. I think a pretty strong argument can be made, however, that the country as a whole (rather than a given impoverished or wealthy individual) benefits more from immunizing 100 people on the street than from an Xbox purchase (see: riots. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Why bipartisanship can't work: the expert view
- 01/02/2010 11:34:58 PM
939 Views
And a personal comment
- 01/02/2010 11:39:28 PM
671 Views
Who's to say YOU really know what's happening in Washington, though?
- 02/02/2010 01:41:20 AM
704 Views
not to mention those who mistake knowledge for understanding
- 02/02/2010 10:41:14 PM
526 Views
Even so.
- 05/02/2010 05:45:54 AM
560 Views
Like the NYT?
- 05/02/2010 02:12:36 PM
581 Views
I don't believe the Times has ever conceded bias.
- 05/02/2010 06:03:02 PM
605 Views
and neither does Fox so I am not sure that matters
- 05/02/2010 06:40:15 PM
647 Views
Note that I didn't mention Fox (or anyone, for that matter. )
- 05/02/2010 07:13:31 PM
574 Views
PBS is biased
- 05/02/2010 07:21:14 PM
552 Views
You're entitled to believe that.
- 05/02/2010 07:31:07 PM
694 Views
PBS has an obvious yet undeclared bias so does NPR
- 09/02/2010 04:47:53 AM
519 Views
Even were that true (which I dispute) my statement stands.
- 09/02/2010 09:50:36 AM
647 Views
so they wouldn't be biased becuas it could hurt them but you still argue republicans attack them
- 09/02/2010 02:19:53 PM
596 Views
We have been for some time.
- 02/02/2010 03:31:10 AM
600 Views
I don't think that's the case
- 03/02/2010 02:59:50 PM
553 Views
Universal healthcare was the primary plank in Clintons '92 platform.
- 04/02/2010 10:02:18 AM
547 Views
That does not mean his bare plurality was an endorsement of National Healthcare
- 04/02/2010 02:09:32 PM
652 Views
I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue.
- 05/02/2010 08:09:50 AM
685 Views
Re: I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue.
- 05/02/2010 03:52:23 PM
640 Views
[insert witty subject line here]
- 06/02/2010 02:15:21 AM
657 Views
Let me break this into multiple replies here
- 06/02/2010 07:45:36 PM
648 Views
'K
- 08/02/2010 01:22:12 PM
647 Views
Probably time to go into 'summary mode'
- 08/02/2010 07:34:55 PM
673 Views
Again, we're back to "how would you prefer to do it?"
- 09/02/2010 09:42:51 AM
682 Views
Any way that works, which currently probably is none
- 09/02/2010 06:12:41 PM
628 Views
I think HDI is more accurate than nothing, though it certainly needs some fine tuning.
- 10/02/2010 11:03:08 AM
704 Views
I'll play a bigger age card since it was my third election to vote in and he won because of Perot
- 05/02/2010 05:57:04 PM
551 Views
Let's put it another way: Why did Dems nominate him instead of, say, Gephardt?
- 06/02/2010 02:22:04 AM
639 Views
you don't get mandates from primaries
- 08/02/2010 02:12:29 PM
531 Views
No, but end of the day more people wanted healthcare than didn't.
- 08/02/2010 03:09:31 PM
538 Views
everyone want health care they just don't want congress runnig it
- 09/02/2010 04:56:44 AM
589 Views
Whom do you prefer?
- 09/02/2010 10:07:39 AM
621 Views
Sorry not a big fan of socialism I hear it big over in Europe though
- 09/02/2010 02:23:55 PM
523 Views
In other words you prefer the system we have; thanks for admitting it.
- 10/02/2010 10:05:38 AM
573 Views
- 10/02/2010 10:05:38 AM
573 Views
I prefer Thomas Woods Jr's description of bipartisanship
- 02/02/2010 02:49:06 AM
568 Views
If only someone had stood up on 8 December, 1941 and said, "hey, you're not supposed to do stuff!"
- 02/02/2010 03:28:38 AM
706 Views
you're making a good job taking things out of context, Joel
- 03/02/2010 12:47:57 PM
536 Views
Don't speak in absolutes and I won't read absolutes.
- 04/02/2010 10:08:43 AM
545 Views
Some qualifiers can be left unsaid for a clearer message. Or better delivery
- 04/02/2010 10:26:56 AM
547 Views
- 04/02/2010 10:26:56 AM
547 Views
Qualifiers are clarifying by nature.
- 04/02/2010 10:49:06 AM
665 Views
huh. That does make sense. I know malpractice is a big weight on the the system in the US.
- 04/02/2010 11:58:37 AM
515 Views
Perhaps, but it's hardly the greatest weight, or even in the top three, IMHO.
- 05/02/2010 05:44:49 AM
649 Views
Pearl Harbor would never have happened to a classically liberal nation
- 05/02/2010 01:33:56 AM
556 Views
Wow - that was a dumb statement even for you!
- 05/02/2010 04:22:59 PM
723 Views
I do generally agree, but I think the Washington Naval Conference is too often overlooked.
- 06/02/2010 02:33:51 AM
702 Views
Politicians and pundits should stop calling things that happened in the last decade "unprecedented"
- 02/02/2010 03:23:27 AM
768 Views
Or the democratic party has shifted so far to to the left they can't even get all of the dems
- 02/02/2010 02:39:14 PM
530 Views
You didn't hear all the whining when Bush was in charge with a Republican Congress?
- 02/02/2010 08:50:05 PM
539 Views
I there was plenty of whining going on
- 02/02/2010 10:36:56 PM
481 Views
Is this you conceding that the GOP is being obstructionist?
- 08/02/2010 01:43:04 PM
527 Views
I agree they are obstructing the libs from doing whatever they want
- 08/02/2010 02:19:13 PM
432 Views
They've tried including Republicans in drafting bills.
- 08/02/2010 03:08:17 PM
623 Views
tyring to pcik off one republican is not including republicans
- 09/02/2010 05:03:44 AM
531 Views
So we've gone from "stop being secretive" to "no public meetings" eh?
- 09/02/2010 11:59:50 AM
567 Views
well it was your guy who was up in arms about private meetings
- 09/02/2010 02:29:34 PM
538 Views
Was it? I don't recall any Dem complaining about private meeting on healthcare.
- 10/02/2010 09:44:56 AM
697 Views
most liberals seem to foretting the "rhetoric" that Obama used to get elected
- 13/02/2010 06:54:34 AM
525 Views

