If that's the case you should try to reclaim the word, not demonize it.
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/03/2010 08:14:11 AM
It's not limited to liberals, ideologues truly believe what they are selling - normally - so when their brand name get's a bad smell, they invariably assume it's because they've been slandered and misrepresented... and of course that's always going to be partially true on as big a stage as a entire nation over decades, so they rarely have to hunt to find people to point the finger at and cry 'slander'.
However, typically they are responsible for much if not most of their bad image, they just can't bring themselves to believe that people might reject their ideas because they obviously make sense and are correct, so people are stupid and have been tricked. Unfortunately airing such attitudes, while most ideologies can get away with it, further compounds the objections to liberals, who are considered by most to be elitist who think everyone is stupid and can't see past their theoretical Utopian visions. So it's sort of a double whammy and changing names to progressive even further compounds it because the left already has a reputation for liking to make cosmetic name changes 'Oh, don't call them X, call them [lengthy confusing politically correct term]' further highlighting the problem.
However, typically they are responsible for much if not most of their bad image, they just can't bring themselves to believe that people might reject their ideas because they obviously make sense and are correct, so people are stupid and have been tricked. Unfortunately airing such attitudes, while most ideologies can get away with it, further compounds the objections to liberals, who are considered by most to be elitist who think everyone is stupid and can't see past their theoretical Utopian visions. So it's sort of a double whammy and changing names to progressive even further compounds it because the left already has a reputation for liking to make cosmetic name changes 'Oh, don't call them X, call them [lengthy confusing politically correct term]' further highlighting the problem.
well, i'm not saying that the left doesn't engage in elitism or any of the other things you're talking about. and i also accept, as i said in another thread on this site, that zealots will always be zealots no matter which side they're on. but there is no denying that "liberal" has turned into a catch-all for the right to demonize any issue they don't like, and part of that includes changing the label so that it's not as stigmatizing as the "liberal" one.
I agree, however 'liberal' is actually something of a special case.
There's an element to that that a lot of people miss, much of the GOP feels that the left stole the word liberal and perverted it, so for much of the core party it was word that got stolen and perverted and became dirty, so a big chunk of it wasn't trying to make the word dirty to hurt the dems, it was about genuine anger of our concept of liberalism, classic liberalism, being stolen and twisted to be about socialism and statism. How fair and accurate that is being rather irrelevant, many older GOP do feel that way and have passed the sentiment on to a lot of the newer GOP, and that sentiment is very strong with a lot of northern republicans, especially in the northeast and a bit less so in the midwest, those two places having orignally been the GOP's strongholds..
That it's been demonized instead argues that view is a definite minority.
That said, I still hold that the right does not have the power in itself to demonize "liberal" or any other word; the left accepted the indictment when they ran away from the word the way conservatives have never done with THAT word. Calling liberal policies by another name is simply avoiding the issue; if the policies can stand on merit (as I believe they can) there's no shame in calling them "liberal, " "progressive" or ";kluadeian. " It should be about substance, not form. The last time any Dem came close to embracing "liberal" was Dukakis in '88, but he was from such a far left state, and such an anemic candidate ripe for the soulless Atwater attack machine, that it apparently doomed the word "liberal" for all time. Hence we have the bizarre spectacle of George Bush urging the Iraq war to "defend liberal democracy" and two CMB threads in as many months wondering WTF happened to the word "liberal" in America. What happened was its advocates did a sorry job defending it then tried to blame the right for attacking it too successfully, even when those attacks often consisted of no more than the word alone said in a scornful tone.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
If you could ban some words from political discourse, which would you ban?
- 13/03/2010 06:35:25 AM
1313 Views
all of them.
- 13/03/2010 04:42:02 PM
556 Views
I'm sure the one-fingered salute would turn up more frequently, then.
- 14/03/2010 02:31:34 PM
497 Views
Two: Bipartisan and progressive.
- 13/03/2010 05:14:36 PM
518 Views
"progressive" was created to get around the "liberal" label the right uses
- 13/03/2010 06:00:40 PM
535 Views
Does the right really have the power to make a word dirty?
- 13/03/2010 06:27:46 PM
550 Views
considering that "liberal" has taken the place of "communist" for "something bad" i'd say yes
- 13/03/2010 07:07:21 PM
486 Views
There's a flawed premise in there though
- 13/03/2010 10:43:58 PM
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Re: There's a flawed premise in there though
- 14/03/2010 09:34:58 AM
598 Views
Re: There's a flawed premise in there though
- 14/03/2010 02:56:45 PM
550 Views
If that's the case you should try to reclaim the word, not demonize it.
- 15/03/2010 08:14:11 AM
610 Views
It probably will be down the road
- 15/03/2010 04:59:58 PM
628 Views
Good...? 
- 15/03/2010 09:17:22 PM
673 Views
- 15/03/2010 09:17:22 PM
673 Views
Re: Good...?
- 15/03/2010 10:20:53 PM
699 Views
- 15/03/2010 10:20:53 PM
699 Views
Re: Good...?
- 29/03/2010 04:15:16 PM
603 Views
- 29/03/2010 04:15:16 PM
603 Views
Joel and Isaac prepare to hijack another thread 
- 30/03/2010 01:15:40 AM
736 Views
- 30/03/2010 01:15:40 AM
736 Views
As long as I get top billing.
- 03/04/2010 11:54:38 AM
687 Views
- 03/04/2010 11:54:38 AM
687 Views
Re: As long as I get top billing.
- 03/04/2010 12:50:54 PM
635 Views
- 03/04/2010 12:50:54 PM
635 Views
Re: As long as I get top billing.
- 04/04/2010 01:33:27 PM
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- 04/04/2010 01:33:27 PM
555 Views
Heh. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. *edit*
I woulkd say the left made the word liberal dirty
- 15/03/2010 05:15:24 PM
483 Views
it must be a terrible terrible burden on you to have all the answers to everything... 
*NM*
- 15/03/2010 11:08:04 PM
321 Views
*NM*
- 15/03/2010 11:08:04 PM
321 Views
just as being stupid must be a burden for you *NM*
- 16/03/2010 02:06:43 PM
243 Views
what? no sandy vagina comment? you're slipping.... *NM*
- 16/03/2010 02:51:19 PM
275 Views
How's that paranoia treating you?
- 16/03/2010 12:53:31 AM
519 Views
how is that head in sand treating you?
- 16/03/2010 02:19:54 PM
525 Views
Re: how is that head in sand treating you?
- 16/03/2010 09:07:09 PM
672 Views
Which fringe group do you believe I belong to?
- 16/03/2010 10:23:53 PM
426 Views
if all of this is true....
- 16/03/2010 11:17:19 PM
526 Views
Because strong partisanship and actual extremism are two very different things, I'd say. 
*NM*
- 16/03/2010 11:27:02 PM
266 Views
*NM*
- 16/03/2010 11:27:02 PM
266 Views
I am a militant moderate
- 18/03/2010 01:45:40 PM
466 Views
*NM*
Just because an idea is new DOESN'T mean it constitutes progress, agreed.
- 15/03/2010 08:03:14 AM
576 Views
hope and change 
*NM*
- 14/03/2010 03:32:34 PM
391 Views
*NM*
- 14/03/2010 03:32:34 PM
391 Views
None; if the other side frames an issue better than you, that's your fault, not theirs.
- 15/03/2010 07:55:57 AM
610 Views
Words/phrases that I would abolish:
- 15/03/2010 02:41:51 PM
648 Views
Re: Words/phrases that I would abolish:
- 15/03/2010 04:27:21 PM
629 Views
leave to a liberal to want to ban words they don't like *NM*
- 15/03/2010 05:10:19 PM
263 Views
Re: leave to a liberal to want to ban words they don't like
- 15/03/2010 05:38:24 PM
503 Views
That was weak
- 15/03/2010 05:48:34 PM
491 Views
at least it mirrored your original comment. *NM*
- 15/03/2010 05:53:34 PM
285 Views
to bad it didn't mirror reality
- 15/03/2010 08:33:18 PM
449 Views
you misspoke
- 16/03/2010 12:36:23 AM
586 Views
that is often true but I don't think it is true now
- 16/03/2010 04:12:18 PM
637 Views
Re: that is often true but I don't think it is true now
- 16/03/2010 09:34:42 PM
680 Views
Al Franken is a joke right?
- 16/03/2010 10:31:41 PM
487 Views
Re: Al Franken is a joke right?
- 17/03/2010 05:34:25 PM
530 Views