That's simple enough: Israel is a first world state.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 19/03/2010 02:13:17 PM
If they gave up the violence and kept every one of their demands i would have a problem with it. Doesn't mean that all of those demands would be met but it would give some moral credibility. They could actually build some support in the US if they were to use Gandhi tactics. Would it get them everything they want? no but it would give them more then they have now and most importantly it would give them a chance to move forward.
Yes, but that's not going to happen. It just isn't. And like I said above, it's hard to see how doing that would gain them substantially more than they can get otherwise.
There are countries all over the world right now that are occupying territory they conquered from others. Russia and China both larger problems with occupied territory and the Muslim population that live there then Israel has but all of the focus is on Israel and Israel is the only that is expected to give in. Where is the outrage for what is happening in Chechnya? Why isn’t Europe up in arms over that? What about the people in Xinjiang why do they get no support? Why is a tiny country like Israel whose very existence is at risk held to such a higher standard then countries like Russia and China? Those are not rhetorical questions and I think the fact that there is no good answer raises the question of does the fact it is a Jewish state play a role.
Israel is a first world state, and Europeans tend to have rather higher standards for those. In addition to that, the massive gap in wealth and development between the Israelis and Palestinians makes it look rather similar to colonialism - something Europe was guilty of on a large scale in the not-so-distant past, which might well be precisely why people find it so abhorrent that Israel is still doing it, and reminding the European countries of their own guilt in the past.
It doesn't really compare to cases of repressing or even violently suppressing separatism, like in Chechnya and Xinjiang - separatism is a phenomenon that exists in Europe as well, in a few cases with violence, and opinions are divided on how justified that is. Though while the Chechnya war was raging, there was actually a lot of attention for that in Europe - then after the worst died down, attention wandered elsewhere. Israel-Palestine is a conflict that has been in the news and gotten attention for so long that everybody has some kind of familiarity with it, some kind of opinion on it, and so it keeps getting attention even when there isn't anything big going on. That much is true in the US as well.
As for the Jewish factor, I've said it before, the fact that the victims (well, not really the victims themselves for the most part, but their compatriots) turned to oppressors in so short a time offends the pacifist ideology of many Europeans. So in that sense, there is a connection to the Holocaust. Only an imbecile would seriously compare the modest war crimes and oppression of Israel against the Palestinians with the Holocaust, but the fact that some people still do exactly that has a lot to do with that ideology and the idea that a people that has suffered so much should if anything be more pacifist than others, not less.
Turkey threatens to expel 100,000 Armenians
17/03/2010 05:10:26 PM
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Why not let sleeping dogs lie?
17/03/2010 05:22:34 PM
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Erdogan is the Middle East's Chavez. *NM*
17/03/2010 06:38:00 PM
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I think Lieberman has the better claim there. *NM*
18/03/2010 03:39:29 AM
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Hardly. Lieberman makes sense
18/03/2010 05:34:43 PM
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I've read some articles saying otherwise.
18/03/2010 05:49:52 PM
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Torpedoing Biden's mission ? What a sad joke.
18/03/2010 06:22:37 PM
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Would you like to call it something else?
18/03/2010 06:26:34 PM
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Because Obama was looking for a way to get offended
18/03/2010 06:54:55 PM
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Your problem is that a "settlement freeze" doesn't impress anyone at all.
18/03/2010 07:16:55 PM
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Maybe we should just ask the Palestinians if we can keep Tel Aviv ?
18/03/2010 07:44:07 PM
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If you want anyone to be impressed, yes.
18/03/2010 09:03:11 PM
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How is it too much when there is a freeze ?
18/03/2010 09:22:03 PM
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You call this a freeze?
18/03/2010 09:43:52 PM
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Not your sourness silly. Obama's
18/03/2010 10:15:56 PM
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How long are supposed to stop building for?
18/03/2010 09:32:58 PM
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How about permanently?
18/03/2010 09:50:46 PM
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I don't think i agree that the condidtions for peace or that well known
19/03/2010 04:32:37 AM
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Major conditions
19/03/2010 09:59:37 AM
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Re: Major conditions
19/03/2010 01:26:54 PM
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Seriously, what conflict are you looking at?
19/03/2010 01:56:24 PM
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Re: Seriously, what conflict are you looking at?
19/03/2010 04:47:07 PM
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Ah, good point there... I was kinda thinking of the West.
19/03/2010 08:31:11 PM
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well I wasn't talking about how anyone treated but who was making the decisions
19/03/2010 09:24:47 PM
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That really isn't a very useful observation at this point, though.
19/03/2010 09:32:30 PM
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Man, your analysis is weird
20/03/2010 11:24:40 AM
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I'm a bit confused what you're saying exactly...
20/03/2010 04:10:14 PM
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How so ?
20/03/2010 11:04:30 PM
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They don't exactly have much that they *can* give up.
19/03/2010 10:46:35 AM
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I don't want them to give up anything more then the violience
19/03/2010 01:55:51 PM
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That's simple enough: Israel is a first world state.
19/03/2010 02:13:17 PM
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It is pretty crude
17/03/2010 11:15:28 PM
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Why is recognizing a 100-year-old evil in his country's past "backing him into a corner"????
18/03/2010 11:41:05 AM
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The guy who has managed to face down one military coup from a sector that doesn't want it admitted?
18/03/2010 12:39:46 PM
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Why is it so hard for you people to see that the AKP are the "good guys" in Turkey?
18/03/2010 01:44:13 PM
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There are no "good guys" in Turkey, at least not in the government.
18/03/2010 01:57:44 PM
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Equating the two is ridiculous.
18/03/2010 02:13:37 PM
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My issues are not with a lack of democracy and I don't equate the AKP and the military
18/03/2010 02:35:00 PM
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So they respond to claims of genocide with threats of ethnic cleansing? Terrible. Just terrible.
18/03/2010 11:39:31 AM
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I agree. What they are doing now only makes things worse for them
18/03/2010 08:48:25 PM
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