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Re: As long as I get top billing. Isaac Send a noteboard - 04/04/2010 02:59:07 PM

To be fair, I've only seen Bowling for Columbine, but from what I hear it's representative. There's a "fact seed, " as it were, to form a tangible foundation for whatever polemic he wants to launch at any given time.


I simply choose to give him the benefit of the doubt since conservatives describe him as libs describe Rush, practically word for word, and the description of Rush is inaccurate, so Moore's might be too

Indeed I do, and as I say, that was less a takeover by the left than abandonment by the right. Which is true of a great deal; by the time Reconstruction ended the Republicans were well on the way to being the conservative and Democrats the liberal party. The only real exceptions there was segregation, but the Corrupt Bargain of 1876 made it an issue on which both parties were in fairly solid agreement. There were individual exceptions among Republicans from time to time, but for the most part both parties left it alone; meanwhile Democrats embraced things like the Grange, Free Silver, labor, suffrage etc. and Republicans generally watched mutely or resisted. The one exception is a debatable one; Prohibition was "liberal" in the sense of being a change from the norm, but not really more liberating; on the other hand, Dems ran hot and cold on that one (Al Smith and FDR, for example. )


Well, I'd want to add women's suffrage to that list for the GOP, they were the main push for that. But what I mean is that lib/con rotates a lot, often not really too associated with either party, sometimes with one more than the other. I think it was more connected to the GOP at the time.


For good or ill, I think he was committed to being dispassionate, which may have hurt him as much generally as it did in this instance. Remember, up until the days of Clinton and Obama Democrats had distressing tendency to come of as wonkish, and thought a firm grasp of policy should make having the charisma of a damp sponge irrelevant. Unfortunately politics remains, in a very real sense, a popularity contest, so charisma is indispensable; were that not the case Nixon would've mopped the floor with JFK whether I like it or not.


Yes, there is that. But his running mate seemed to get it with the 'You're no JFK' comment. I guess no one likes the necessity of charisma in politics but it's there, for better or worse. Even though I disagree with him Dukakis's answer was fine by me, but at the same time it lacked any passion, so even those who didn't dislike him more over that specifically had little to put in his plus column. I think if he'd said "Realistically, if something like that came up, I know I'd want the person dead, but we don't make laws around revenge or the desire for revenge from the victim's and their families" I think he might have avoided looking quite so removed.


No, because the courts are the proper place to handle criminal acts. Part of civil disobedience, almost invariably, is deliberately breaking a law because enforcing it will demonstrate its absurdity. If you think a given criminal act shouldn't be criminal it's natural to advocate it be committed openly, and just as natural to expect prosecution in a court of law. If prosecuting a criminal act makes the law look stupid, whose fault is that?


To a degree... I think abortion should be criminalized, I do not favor firebombing abortion clinics or assaulting - verbally or physically - it's clients, supporters, etc. So it's a fine line and much slimmer depending on the case. I hardly think the ACLU should have been disbanded over it, but no organization should actually encourage criminal behavior even if it's parking tickets.


Local autonomy often means some very stupid things can be enacted on a local level with a relatively small number of people supporting them. Put another way, in small areas with (relatively) small populations it's easier for a fringe movement to gain a majority, but the left isn't threatening anything like that on a national level. The fringe right very much is, and has been for some time.


5% of the country's population is in NYC, so local is very questionable there, same as a mayor of my little village has no credential to be president but Guilianni did. Considering the pop of that city is on par with the combined population of the plains states, I wouldn't call it 'local' in that way.



Most people have forgotten how bad the abuses got before government regulation and reform was instituted; people don't pay tribute to Wilson for ending child labor today, but the truth is both he and TR were instrumental in doing so. So it's something of a red herring to say garment industry workers aren't locked into factories that will kill them all if a fire breaks out; it's true, but only because when that ACTUALLY HAPPENED laws were passed to prevent it. There are far fewer abuses NOW because the left agitated for their reform THEN. The suggestion by some (and I'm not pointing a finger at you here) that those abuses were made up out of whole cloth and the reforms should thus be removed makes some of us very nervous because we know better. Obviously there's a limit to how much government regulation is needed, and that's a lot of why I'm a socialist rather than a full blown communist (another large part of the reason is that I don't trust anyone, state or private entity, with complete control. ) Again, what we're debating is where to strike the balance, but in doing so we're talking about some form of socialism rather than pure capitalism OR communism.


Well, there is no doubt those abuses happened, that some were exaggerated and that some are trying to be downplayed beyond reality, I don't really know anyone on my side - of note and of sanity - who does so in the extreme.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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If you could ban some words from political discourse, which would you ban? - 13/03/2010 06:35:25 AM 1313 Views
Working Families, Red Hot Go, Silver Bullet - 13/03/2010 06:46:43 AM 536 Views
I'm not sure if you're against labels or just Bob Seger. *NM* - 13/03/2010 05:15:20 PM 282 Views
well, anything to do with the other side. - 13/03/2010 03:41:12 PM 521 Views
Especially concerning their youth and inexperience *NM* - 14/03/2010 11:22:13 AM 306 Views
all of them. - 13/03/2010 04:42:02 PM 554 Views
I'm sure the one-fingered salute would turn up more frequently, then. - 14/03/2010 02:31:34 PM 495 Views
nah, it would just require the radio people to be more creative - 14/03/2010 06:52:29 PM 584 Views
Two: Bipartisan and progressive. - 13/03/2010 05:14:36 PM 517 Views
"progressive" was created to get around the "liberal" label the right uses - 13/03/2010 06:00:40 PM 533 Views
Does the right really have the power to make a word dirty? - 13/03/2010 06:27:46 PM 548 Views
considering that "liberal" has taken the place of "communist" for "something bad" i'd say yes - 13/03/2010 07:07:21 PM 485 Views
There's a flawed premise in there though - 13/03/2010 10:43:58 PM 560 Views
Re: There's a flawed premise in there though - 14/03/2010 09:34:58 AM 597 Views
Re: There's a flawed premise in there though - 14/03/2010 02:56:45 PM 549 Views
If that's the case you should try to reclaim the word, not demonize it. - 15/03/2010 08:14:11 AM 608 Views
It probably will be down the road - 15/03/2010 04:59:58 PM 626 Views
Good...? - 15/03/2010 09:17:22 PM 671 Views
Re: Good...? - 15/03/2010 10:20:53 PM 698 Views
Re: Good...? - 29/03/2010 04:15:16 PM 602 Views
Joel and Isaac prepare to hijack another thread - 30/03/2010 01:15:40 AM 734 Views
As long as I get top billing. - 03/04/2010 11:54:38 AM 685 Views
Re: As long as I get top billing. - 03/04/2010 12:50:54 PM 633 Views
Re: As long as I get top billing. - 04/04/2010 01:33:27 PM 554 Views
Re: As long as I get top billing. - 04/04/2010 02:59:07 PM 683 Views
Re: As long as I get top billing. - 06/04/2010 03:18:15 AM 615 Views
Heh. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. *edit* - 14/03/2010 02:26:12 PM 487 Views
I know, but it's still a bad description. *NM* - 14/03/2010 05:14:26 PM 221 Views
Not CREATED for that purpose, just dusted off for it. - 15/03/2010 07:34:19 AM 490 Views
I woulkd say the left made the word liberal dirty - 15/03/2010 05:15:24 PM 481 Views
it must be a terrible terrible burden on you to have all the answers to everything... *NM* - 15/03/2010 11:08:04 PM 321 Views
just as being stupid must be a burden for you *NM* - 16/03/2010 02:06:43 PM 243 Views
what? no sandy vagina comment? you're slipping.... *NM* - 16/03/2010 02:51:19 PM 275 Views
but you are still boringly predictable - 16/03/2010 03:23:26 PM 456 Views
actually, no it's just you. *NM* - 16/03/2010 11:12:21 PM 256 Views
How's that paranoia treating you? - 16/03/2010 12:53:31 AM 517 Views
how is that head in sand treating you? - 16/03/2010 02:19:54 PM 523 Views
Re: how is that head in sand treating you? - 16/03/2010 09:07:09 PM 670 Views
Which fringe group do you believe I belong to? - 16/03/2010 10:23:53 PM 424 Views
if all of this is true.... - 16/03/2010 11:17:19 PM 524 Views
I am a militant moderate - 18/03/2010 01:45:40 PM 464 Views
as always, i have to disagree - 18/03/2010 05:30:09 PM 518 Views
unlike the way you use right-winger? - 18/03/2010 06:50:12 PM 1137 Views
*NM* - 14/03/2010 02:25:01 PM 305 Views
Pro-torture *NM* - 13/03/2010 06:27:10 PM 407 Views
I get your point, but it wouldn't work anyway - 13/03/2010 07:20:58 PM 549 Views
transparency - because english politics fricking isn't. *NM* - 13/03/2010 10:11:59 PM 222 Views
none are these days - 13/03/2010 10:23:03 PM 689 Views
hope and change *NM* - 14/03/2010 03:32:34 PM 391 Views
i hope you could change your mind about that *NM* - 14/03/2010 07:35:39 PM 239 Views
bah. - 15/03/2010 12:24:51 AM 739 Views
None, - 15/03/2010 11:08:11 AM 576 Views
Words/phrases that I would abolish: - 15/03/2010 02:41:51 PM 646 Views
Bah. - 15/03/2010 03:05:20 PM 574 Views
Re: Bah. - 15/03/2010 03:11:47 PM 562 Views
Save the puns for damookster! - 15/03/2010 03:15:24 PM 561 Views
ROFL *NM* - 15/03/2010 03:17:07 PM 293 Views
XD *NM* - 15/03/2010 05:51:13 PM 319 Views
Re: Words/phrases that I would abolish: - 15/03/2010 04:27:21 PM 627 Views
Re: Words/phrases that I would abolish: - 15/03/2010 04:48:48 PM 581 Views
Re: Words/phrases that I would abolish: - 15/03/2010 05:32:30 PM 629 Views
I thought we settled that issue long ago here (well, wotmania) - 15/03/2010 04:48:02 PM 468 Views
hahaha *NM* - 15/03/2010 04:50:29 PM 236 Views
leave to a liberal to want to ban words they don't like *NM* - 15/03/2010 05:10:19 PM 263 Views
Re: leave to a liberal to want to ban words they don't like - 15/03/2010 05:38:24 PM 501 Views
That was weak - 15/03/2010 05:48:34 PM 489 Views
at least it mirrored your original comment. *NM* - 15/03/2010 05:53:34 PM 285 Views
to bad it didn't mirror reality - 15/03/2010 08:33:18 PM 447 Views
sure, the right doesn't say "don't say that" - 15/03/2010 11:00:56 PM 463 Views
which terms that the left uses did he suggest removing? - 16/03/2010 03:20:21 PM 520 Views
you misspoke - 16/03/2010 12:36:23 AM 585 Views
that is often true but I don't think it is true now - 16/03/2010 04:12:18 PM 635 Views
Re: that is often true but I don't think it is true now - 16/03/2010 09:34:42 PM 679 Views
Al Franken is a joke right? - 16/03/2010 10:31:41 PM 485 Views
Re: Al Franken is a joke right? - 17/03/2010 05:34:25 PM 528 Views
Getting a bit excessive - 17/03/2010 05:49:42 PM 485 Views
Hear, hear. *NM* - 18/03/2010 03:30:33 AM 232 Views

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