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OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM
I would make it not happen.

Rome doesn't resort to tactics which would result in their fall and the dark ages never happen. Europe doesn't go through the intellectual lull it did and religious dogma and irrationality isn't able to take over.

As a result, mankind is much further along today.


Didn't the Plauge happen several hundred years after the fall of Rome? Or am I just being an idiot and not quite getting what your saying?

In some cases, the same diseases were responsible for multiple instances of plague, and it's hard to accurately diagnose each of them hundreds or even thousands of years later. "Plague" killed Pericles and a host of others when Athens was besieged in the Peloponessian War; WHICH plague remains an open question.

I don't agree the Romes plague near the end is what killed it though; overextension and complacency during the Pax are more attractive candidates. Christian unity and the assimilation of so many "barbarian" German tribes kept Rome on life support and hid the decline for at least a century after its peak, but had the Empire been sustainable Constantinople would never have been founded.


The plague that came through Rome crippled its army, killing most of the young Roman soldiers. This eventually forced them to try and assimilate barbarian tribes and resort to the measures that kept it on life support.

Without the plague, Rome's population might have been strong enough to sustain Roman troops and a Roman identity, instead of seeding power to outsiders.

Of course, the reason Rome fell can be debated endlessly. I'm one of those that thinks it was the plague.

Either way, if Rome hadn't fallen like it did, I think we'd be better off by a lot today. But "Have Rome not fall like it did" doesn't sound like a very good reply

Just wanted to let you know I DID read it; I always read replies, even if work and other responsibilities often mean I don't get to respond in turn as promptly as I'd like anymore. Oh, for the days when I could go back and forth in a half dozen wotmania CMB threads at once for thirty hours before collapsing in an exhausted heap then rising to re-enter the lists. On the plus side (sort of) I couldn't do that now even if I had the time.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 779 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 640 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 598 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 587 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 555 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 545 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 551 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 541 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 550 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 435 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 395 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 531 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 431 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 345 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 575 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 522 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 519 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 347 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 434 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 368 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 320 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 579 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 607 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 354 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 424 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 442 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 526 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 360 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 371 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 575 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 549 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 348 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 410 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 344 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 346 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 454 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 500 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 609 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 557 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 525 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 632 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 544 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 583 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 221 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 455 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 349 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 393 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 499 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 383 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 553 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 322 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 387 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 490 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 457 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 380 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 566 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 332 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 372 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 530 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 523 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 505 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 491 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 603 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 358 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 349 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 358 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 549 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 407 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 574 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 498 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 445 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 435 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 396 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 613 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 315 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 529 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 372 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 505 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 404 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 557 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 582 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 529 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 320 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 489 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 408 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 500 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 606 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 501 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 384 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 534 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 354 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 655 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 417 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 500 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 403 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 538 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 409 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 337 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 509 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 357 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 464 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 308 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 329 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 388 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 410 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 374 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 545 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 517 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 543 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 527 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 475 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 515 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 335 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 309 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 314 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 314 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 377 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 309 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 485 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 568 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 577 Views
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