I merely wanted an appraisal of your confidence in their trustworthiness in case you turned out to be innocent after all. I assume they are guiltless unless you turn out innocent, it was merely a contingency plan. Unfortunately, it didn't help much, but then I don't think it'll matter, since I am confident in your guilt.
I can't help but point out that you just posted all those options in detail here
Let's look at some of your other falsheoods, both the outright and those by ommision.
You've claimed that there is a tangible difference to you between my suggesting a no lynch and voting for it, but you did it here
In that comment, in response to my saying that "...Insofar as the reason to vote no lynch instead of waiting for the deadline is to avoid wasting time and shedding bored players... a situation we clearly have here, you even say that I've favored it as a mod. I do, and you know and have shown that you know, that I do. That you dislike no lynches, does not change that I consider them the more pro-game solution than double-modkill or game death by inactivity. This is no secret, we've discussed many a time that even as a DF I will take risky action designed to keep people posting even if it draws eyes on me. I place game continuity above victory in individual games, and you know this, yet you lie outright when you say that in your eyes theirs a votable difference between suggesting and casting a vote to no lynch and you lie by omission when you imply I must have purely victory motives in mind for my actions. You also spin, because you've not explained how this scummy action I took would benefit me, you line up a series of rationales, all of which have improbable logic behind them, and say if all these are true then Isaac is scum, and when I countered them, you did not counter, you accused me of obfuscation.
Let's take another example:
He asks "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to worry about third party kills and to seek out third parties?" because the real question would be "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" And the answer is of course yes. Look at previous games, have you even seen Isaac say something to the effect of "I don't think we should will find mafia today, nor do I think we should even try"? And yet that's what he did with that serial killer chase.
You accuse me of the very thing you are doing. Your counter question "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" twists my original question, because in your form, seeking a third party is equal to ignoring a threat, as though pursuing a lynch on DF 1 proves I'm a scummer because I didn't pursue DF 2 while hunting DF 1. You then say in previous games I didn't said something, putting it in quotes, but you say 'something like' and provide no reference to it. But you leave out that I never said any such thing yesterday, I said the scum were shapeshifters and would match their character claims, and thus wouldn't be locatable by our character claims table, but a SK might be, this truthful and logical comment you are aware is both you then lift out of context as proof of perfidy... a lie by ommision, you never challenge the actual comment, you never even reference it, maybe because in context it is not an indicator of guilt at all?
The actual quote:
All right, so anyway, I do unsurprisingly have plots and schemes afoot but at the moment most have not yet reached 'the proper time', so I will focus on one particular avenue, which in this case was sort of a 'SK gambit'
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Now, you would attempt on day 1, and later today as well, to say that it was a sign of my guilt that I'd suggest such a path, yet as I pointed out, and you never rebutted, that claim was based off an underlying assumption I would have to do it without knowing it was a scummer tell, the original accusation puts the claim to bed, as the bolded text indicates. So I accidentally dropped proof I was scummer in the very same message I outright say it could be seen that way. That makes no sense, and yet by accusing me from a set off comments in which it was impossible to miss my saying that, you once again lift something clearly out of context in a fashion that can not be an accident. "Knowingly Presenting False Evidence" is, some might say, not particularly pro-town
Let's go to your next one, in your original accusations on me that caused this avalanche:
He says "Led a lynch on an innocent townie? BlackAdder, Check." and tries to equate this with his serial killer hunt, leaving out that they are completely different - in BlackAdder's case, he was trying to catch a ninja and failed. In White Flame's case, he was not trying to find a Skrull and succeeded in not finding one. He tries to compare killing a townie by mistake to killing a townie by intent.
Again, utter word game, and real ironic when your whole point is to accuse me of doing that. In BlackAdders case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed. In WF's case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed, SK's a scummers. You ignore again the inconvenient truth that I'd already told everyone that going for a SK was not ideal but we had a decent lead and a SK is more dangeorus than a single scummer. Again, you use a flawed argument that translates as "This cop is clearly dirty and on the take because he ran past someone who was trying to steal a car while pursuing a murderer" it sounds reasonable to people only because there's a tag at the end 'Someone shot the fleeing murderer, ending the day, and he turned out to be innocent, it was not possible to go back for the car thief' and leaves out something really vital, I didn't run past someone stealing a car, I ran past when someone yelled 'He's stealing my car' and there was no sign of who 'he' was.
Next:
He asks irrelevant questions like "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to accuse someone on day 1?" or "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to drop a lynch I feel is not viable?" in an attempt to get people to get in an agreeable position. After all, it is perfectly accurate to say that these are not abnormal behaviours, nor are they anti-town, and he hopes that people will use them to get a good impression of him and forget what the real point was.
No supporting evidence of that claim, you just say 'irrelevant' and bypass it, but its pretty relevant and you know it. You use both the day 1 vote and the day 1 non-vote for ? as evidence against me originally, yet when I point outthat is normal, instead of ceding the point as a flaw in your original accusation, you ignore that it was part of your accusation and accuse me of obfuscation by pointing it out.
Next:
Isaac writes in an attempt to obfuscate the issue. The facts are plain and simple: in the span of two days, Isaac has deliberately voted to protect the mafia from lynching.
In a post that is loaded with spin and obfuscation, you accuse me of doing it the whole while, then say I deliberately voted to protect the mafia. Yet your sole evidence of such a vote is that I went after a probable SK, needless to say, that's hardly anti-town, but certainly no more anti-town then everyone who voted for the lynch without pursuing other leads. That's a far more obvious scummer tell, I tell people I don't think the lynch is viable anymore on day 1 and we need to pursue other leads, I suggest some, and WF gets whacked in a few hours. You avoid all mention of that aspect of things repeatedly, that an avalanche vote off my suggestion we pursue other routes is not only bizarre, but utterly smashes the 'SK as distraction' concept.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
- 03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
2842 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
- 03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
1070 Views
I was thinking about number 1.
- 03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
1082 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
- 04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
1132 Views
I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
- 04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
1050 Views
O.......K..........
- 05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
1014 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
- 06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
1067 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
1069 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
1055 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
1091 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
1140 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
1160 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
1128 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
- 11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
1084 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
1153 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
1084 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
1200 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
- 11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
1151 Views
Interesting.
- 11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
1087 Views
It's certainly possible.
- 11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
1101 Views
Now I'm curious
- 11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
1155 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
- 11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
1134 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
- 04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
1152 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
- 04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
1210 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
- 04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
1139 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
- 04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
1068 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
- 04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
593 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain.
*NM*
- 05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
646 Views
*NM*
- 05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
646 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
- 03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
650 Views
Hobo - Innocent + read this before you HC if you haven't already
- 04/11/2010 08:25:26 PM
1060 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
- 10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
1025 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
- 10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
601 Views
Vote: No Lynch
- 13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
1095 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
- 13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
1045 Views
Then offer an alternative
- 13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
1086 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
- 14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
1006 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
- 14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
1073 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
- 14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
999 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
- 14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
548 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
- 14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
1058 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
- 14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
1071 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
- 14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
1000 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
- 13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
1027 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
- 14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
1038 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
- 14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
1195 Views
Vote: Isaac
- 13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
1124 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
- 14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
1044 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
- 14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
1110 Views
What was scummy?
- 14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
1138 Views
Re: What was scummy?
- 14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
1062 Views
Extrmely thin
- 14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
1214 Views
Actually...
- 14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
1136 Views
Re: Actually...
- 14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
1076 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
- 14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
1128 Views
- 14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
1128 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
- 14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
1036 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
- 14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
1067 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
- 15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
947 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
- 15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
1066 Views
Sure
- 15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
1037 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
- 15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
1133 Views
I think so.
- 15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
1010 Views
Also, I must confess...
- 15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
1033 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
- 15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
1142 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
- 15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
977 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
- 15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
1095 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
- 15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
1066 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
- 15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
645 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
- 15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
955 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
- 15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
914 Views
Thanks, and a question too
- 15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
990 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
- 15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
619 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
- 15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
943 Views
OK Isaac
- 15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
999 Views
My Defense Posts
- 16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
989 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
- 16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
1053 Views
Defense B: The Numbers Game
- 16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
1047 Views
"What motive would a scummer have"?
- 16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
1029 Views
Without any further questions though?
- 16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
1109 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
- 17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
1012 Views
Defense C: The Intro Flavor
- 16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
1154 Views
Eh ...
- 16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
999 Views
Re: Eh ...
- 17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
1038 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
- 16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
1082 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
- 16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
1015 Views
Yes, that was it.
- 16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
1012 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
- 17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
1031 Views
Not at all.
- 17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
1032 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
- 17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
1103 Views
How do you figure?
- 17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
1004 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
- 17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
989 Views
All right, fair enough.
- 17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
1109 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
- 17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
1046 Views
- 17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
1046 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
- 17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
1019 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
- 17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
1091 Views
Slight EBWOP
- 17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
1087 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
- 17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
996 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
- 17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
1073 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
- 17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
1014 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
- 17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
1068 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
- 17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
1008 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
- 17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
1089 Views
- 17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
1089 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
- 17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
1022 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
- 17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
1016 Views
I just caught that
- 17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
1132 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
- 17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
1026 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
- 17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
1051 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
- 17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
1102 Views
Complete sidetrack.
- 17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
1107 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
- 17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
980 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
951 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
964 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
1051 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
998 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
- 17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
1029 Views
What the balls?
- 17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
1052 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
- 18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
1001 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
- 18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
979 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
- 18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
1184 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
- 18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
986 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
- 18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
985 Views
i don't know much about comics but
- 18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
1034 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
- 18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
931 Views
They're also Marvel characters
- 18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
1072 Views
LOL, duly noted
- 18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
1074 Views
- 18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
1074 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
- 18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
1064 Views
Sure
- 18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
1046 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
- 21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
612 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
- 21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
996 Views
- 21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
996 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
- 21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
1026 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
- 21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
1007 Views
But we do get information
- 22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
1021 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
- 22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
607 Views
Well, congrats
*NM*
- 22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
649 Views
*NM*
- 22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
649 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
- 22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
999 Views
- 22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
999 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
- 21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
1020 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
- 22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
966 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
- 22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
1078 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
- 22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
923 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
- 22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
934 Views
- 22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
934 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
- 22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
652 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall
.
- 22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
1119 Views
.
- 22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
1119 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
- 22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
1113 Views



