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This is a flawed argument in two entirely separate and divergent ways. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/01/2014 01:49:27 AM

So problem 1:


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Stephen had access to a night kill.

He either got it from

a) Being a vampire

or

b) being a member of a faction


This is Mafia 33. I have 32 games to draw from for very concrete, very demonstrable examples of characters with a night kill that were neither a) a vampire nor b) a member of a faction.

It's not like "vigilante" or "serial killer" are even obscure roles or anything.

And problem 2:


View original post
Stephen had access to a night kill.

He either got it from

a) Being a vampire

or

b) being a member of a faction


If the Night Kill ability does not come from being part of a faction - and since her Watch faction ability wasn't revealed, it's almost certainly doesn't - then why should we be lynching vampires? Even if we were to accept your unfounded assumptions that every vampire has a Night Kill, how is that even relevant to anything? The town wins when the scum faction is eliminated, and the best evidence suggests that vampires are not the scum faction. They are currently the least suspect of all players here. And that fact is reason enough for any remaining vampires not to use any Night Kills they may or may not have because that would instantly lose them their best defence. What is it you wish to accomplish? I've never before seen a game with so much dedication to lynching a player because she is suspected of possibly being a vigilante. Hell, even when Isaac got the town to hunt a phantom Serial Killer instead of the mafia he wasn't this zealous about it, and I still immediately and correctly suspected him of being scum for it.

What is your objective in this game, beetnemesis? You've been chomping at the bit to get vampires lynched from Day 1, with less and less reason to do it. I'm very much entertaining the suspicion that you are the one who Night Killed Stephen because you simply hate vampires that much.

Would it make you feel better if the Watch investigated players to get a vampire registry? We can investigate players to discover their race or nationality, and I'm fine with tighter control over lethal actions. But really, I think even if they can, the vampires would have to be really stupid to try to night kill anybody right now.

The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Mafia 33: Discworld, Day 4 - A New Soap - 23/12/2013 02:05:56 PM 1942 Views
I was kind of hoping we had a Watch faction that would take out a Hippo tonight. - 23/12/2013 03:22:57 PM 1266 Views
I targeted a lot of people and don't know against whom I was successful or not. *NM* - 23/12/2013 11:47:29 PM 855 Views
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *NM* - 24/12/2013 07:46:16 AM 761 Views
"a lot of people" and "don't know" the results - 24/12/2013 08:03:12 AM 1254 Views
You oughtn't be so surprised. - 24/12/2013 07:22:47 PM 1198 Views
Seems pretty consistent to me - 24/12/2013 07:40:33 PM 1364 Views
...it does? His last hypocop was "Did nothing so I could save Morale" - 24/12/2013 09:51:02 PM 1124 Views
Re: ...it does? His last hypocop was "Did nothing so I could save Morale" - 24/12/2013 10:15:41 PM 1148 Views
Re: Seems pretty consistent to me - 25/12/2013 04:09:14 AM 1219 Views
I'd like to know if you targetted me, as well. - 25/12/2013 02:17:25 PM 1323 Views
Did something happen to you? - 27/12/2013 03:45:20 AM 1210 Views
I believe so - 28/12/2013 12:58:24 AM 1244 Views
Well? Did you target me? I will make a statement immediately upon your answer. - 29/12/2013 03:52:17 AM 1073 Views
Why would I answer? - 29/12/2013 03:59:24 AM 1132 Views
Fine, then. Vote: Yunalesca - 30/12/2013 03:59:03 PM 1184 Views
Hmm - 01/01/2014 07:01:52 PM 1152 Views
I know people are reluctant to lynch "nice" vampires - 02/01/2014 02:44:47 PM 1238 Views
On the other hand... - 02/01/2014 06:15:48 PM 1219 Views
...you mean the one Night Kill victim we've had? - 02/01/2014 06:56:38 PM 1170 Views
So soap trumps night kill? - 04/01/2014 07:08:11 AM 1139 Views
Pretty sure I presented three reasons why I felt we should lynch Yuna - 04/01/2014 07:47:39 AM 1265 Views
Re: Pretty sure I presented three reasons why I felt we should lynch Yuna - 04/01/2014 06:58:57 PM 1320 Views
Short and sweet rebuttals - 04/01/2014 07:22:41 PM 1327 Views
My initial reaction... - 04/01/2014 10:47:11 PM 1201 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 05/01/2014 03:37:18 AM 1219 Views
I say that a player likely attacking other players is a higher risk - 05/01/2014 02:37:40 PM 1080 Views
Not by your definition of "attacking", no. - 05/01/2014 06:08:49 PM 1221 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 06/01/2014 05:24:43 AM 1277 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 06/01/2014 05:51:20 AM 1239 Views
True, but there is no indication of a different group, is there? *NM* - 04/01/2014 07:37:15 PM 764 Views
Hmm. Apparentely my last post was not posted - 24/12/2013 07:58:55 AM 1233 Views
Fanatic-Templar - Not Guilty *NM* - 25/12/2013 10:18:51 AM 799 Views
Re: Hmm. Apparentely my last post was not posted - 25/12/2013 11:11:17 AM 1134 Views
At first I was like "Waah?", but then I noticed this... - 23/12/2013 09:08:16 PM 1282 Views
Hypocop Table - 25/12/2013 02:21:42 PM 1154 Views
Praziquantel - Not Guilty *NM* - 27/12/2013 04:58:14 AM 706 Views
FT not guilty *NM* - 27/12/2013 05:06:39 PM 839 Views
Re: Hypocop Table - 28/12/2013 04:12:15 PM 1295 Views
Bergioyn - Not Guilty - 02/01/2014 04:23:24 PM 1178 Views
Re: Mafia 33: Discworld, Day 4 - A New Soap - 30/12/2013 10:14:14 AM 1291 Views
Happy New Year! - 02/01/2014 02:37:51 PM 1147 Views
You too, I'll do my best. *NM* - 04/01/2014 07:35:03 PM 713 Views
Alright so hopefully this will get us to start talking/thinking again - 02/01/2014 09:45:23 PM 1453 Views
I'm guessing it's because of the RPS system - 03/01/2014 03:01:06 AM 1206 Views
What is your opinion of my vote towards Yuna? - 03/01/2014 03:04:16 AM 1165 Views
Yuna? Do you have any response to my accusation? *NM* - 07/01/2014 12:08:20 AM 701 Views
So, the promised roleclaim (most of it, at least). - 07/01/2014 03:48:16 AM 1283 Views
OK, so NOW do you concede that Stephen's NK was from being a vampire? - 07/01/2014 04:29:41 AM 1151 Views
? - 07/01/2014 07:38:55 AM 1112 Views
Hell, even if this weren't my own information... - 07/01/2014 08:35:33 AM 1270 Views
And furthermore... - 07/01/2014 08:41:11 AM 1225 Views
He had to get a NK from SOMEWHERE. And if you're dedicated to eliminating NKs... - 07/01/2014 08:54:38 PM 1261 Views
No. You do know what an individual role is, don't you? - 07/01/2014 10:06:16 PM 1231 Views
...what? - 07/01/2014 11:35:33 PM 1143 Views
This is a flawed argument in two entirely separate and divergent ways. - 08/01/2014 01:49:27 AM 1166 Views
Any "role" with a Night Kill would be incongruous - 08/01/2014 05:19:34 AM 1237 Views
Re: Any "role" with a Night Kill would be incongruous - 08/01/2014 07:25:04 AM 1337 Views
I'm just going off of what you're telling us about the Watch - 08/01/2014 02:17:25 PM 1163 Views
Re: I'm just going off of what you're telling us about the Watch - 08/01/2014 06:10:43 PM 1273 Views
How do you know we even have an undead faction? - 08/01/2014 04:28:16 PM 1053 Views
OK, this makes sense. - 07/01/2014 10:07:44 AM 1253 Views
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. - 07/01/2014 08:26:15 PM 1137 Views
Oh. Euhm. Wow - 08/01/2014 06:39:57 AM 1283 Views
Yeah, that was actually the first thing I asked about during the Night. - 08/01/2014 07:33:10 AM 1212 Views
Were you definitely blocked by the Watch? - 08/01/2014 02:45:17 PM 1297 Views
Re: Oh. Euhm. Wow - 08/01/2014 05:43:02 PM 1449 Views
Good work, F-T - 08/01/2014 05:40:41 PM 1533 Views
Re: Good work, F-T - 08/01/2014 06:09:56 PM 1278 Views
So... you want to lynch me, because I want to lynch scum? - 08/01/2014 08:50:26 PM 1168 Views
This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 03:25:02 PM 1195 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 05:33:39 PM 1231 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 06:42:44 PM 1336 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 10/01/2014 04:38:55 AM 1407 Views
Whaaaaaat. We're not nation-building, here. - 10/01/2014 06:04:16 AM 1294 Views
And why shouldn't they? - 10/01/2014 04:25:21 AM 1448 Views
What if Stephen wasn't the target? - 09/01/2014 03:11:38 PM 1206 Views
VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 04:29:34 AM 1276 Views
I'll be looking forward to Sunday then. - 11/01/2014 05:21:57 AM 1104 Views
Sounds good to me too. - 11/01/2014 05:41:38 AM 1600 Views
Re: Sounds good to me too. - 11/01/2014 10:14:16 AM 1107 Views
Hooray, I can kill people just by wishing! *NM* - 12/01/2014 03:03:49 AM 839 Views
I am certain you will not use that power for evil... *NM* - 12/01/2014 05:09:11 AM 875 Views
RBIRL - 11/01/2014 07:32:49 AM 1295 Views
Re: VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 10:19:41 AM 1288 Views
Re: VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 10:25:16 AM 1212 Views
Modkill - Yunalesca - 12/01/2014 09:04:40 PM 1577 Views
So... - 13/01/2014 12:57:58 AM 1670 Views
Re: So... - 13/01/2014 07:54:26 AM 1291 Views
EBWOP. - 13/01/2014 08:00:13 AM 1198 Views
Dwarves and possibly a vampire. - 13/01/2014 07:48:09 PM 1215 Views
They're identifiably foreigners. - 13/01/2014 10:05:08 PM 1653 Views
Not strictly true - 14/01/2014 08:55:57 AM 1271 Views
Re: Not strictly true - 14/01/2014 09:07:41 AM 1348 Views
I trust Isaac enough to think it was not a mistake. - 15/01/2014 02:44:40 AM 1089 Views
This is a reminder that someone stole my necklace and I'm still annoyed about that *NM* - 14/01/2014 06:30:39 PM 933 Views
I'm still annoyed at having my wizard hat stolen too. - 15/01/2014 06:43:41 AM 1184 Views
Agreed, there are enough things left open. - 15/01/2014 03:24:29 PM 1272 Views
This reminds me: did anybody else get anything stolen? - 15/01/2014 03:25:21 PM 1334 Views
Re: This reminds me: did anybody else get anything stolen? - 15/01/2014 07:59:27 PM 1211 Views
I agree, those are the most likely candidates. - 16/01/2014 02:47:05 PM 1622 Views
Problem with that is that the known characters in this game are all recurrent. - 16/01/2014 09:05:38 PM 1297 Views
WIZARD. They're called WIZARDS. GOD *NM* - 17/01/2014 01:59:42 PM 949 Views
Witches also exist in Discworld. *NM* - 17/01/2014 02:10:24 PM 720 Views
Another point of order- no idea who left me feeling drained last night - 16/01/2014 03:04:54 PM 1542 Views
Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 19/01/2014 09:12:56 PM 1172 Views
I really see no reason to believe everybody else loses if the Watch wins. - 19/01/2014 10:07:52 PM 1530 Views
Re: Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 20/01/2014 10:51:15 PM 1256 Views
So... how are things with everybody? Doin good? *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:18:07 PM 982 Views
Day Deadline Monday Night, the 27th *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:38:20 PM 857 Views
Day Deadline Monday Night, the 27th *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:44:34 PM 853 Views
Vote: Praziquantel *NM* - 23/01/2014 07:14:04 PM 711 Views
I'm not disagreeing, but what's your reasoning? *NM* - 24/01/2014 03:39:51 PM 886 Views
What's been discussed already. - 24/01/2014 11:29:45 PM 1164 Views
Well, you know my reasoning - 24/01/2014 10:11:56 PM 1079 Views
And this is what I was waiting for. - 24/01/2014 10:48:16 PM 1624 Views
Vote: Praziquantel - 25/01/2014 09:30:54 PM 1155 Views
And here you are again. - 26/01/2014 06:52:21 AM 1524 Views
This is enought for me. Vote:ranagrande *NM* - 26/01/2014 11:38:42 AM 721 Views
I am a little surprised by your strong defense of Praz - 26/01/2014 07:18:45 PM 1210 Views
Re: I am a little surprised by your strong defense of Praz - 26/01/2014 10:30:31 PM 1576 Views
Then maybe I misinterpreted this: - 26/01/2014 11:37:08 PM 1213 Views
Wait let me try that again... - 26/01/2014 11:38:48 PM 1160 Views
Re: Then maybe I misinterpreted this: - 27/01/2014 02:49:59 AM 1488 Views
Okay fair enough. Unvote. *NM* - 27/01/2014 03:18:34 AM 777 Views
Hm, I think it might be too late to unvote - 27/01/2014 04:09:24 AM 1520 Views
He's right, I didn't check the time stamps - 27/01/2014 07:46:46 PM 1612 Views
Can we get an extension? - 26/01/2014 06:56:08 AM 1564 Views
Seconded. *NM* - 26/01/2014 11:39:05 AM 717 Views
granted - I'll leave it a bit non-specific for now *NM* - 26/01/2014 04:09:00 PM 833 Views
Thank you *NM* - 26/01/2014 07:05:45 PM 732 Views
VNTL is 4 at the moment - 26/01/2014 07:21:53 PM 1692 Views
Vote record Update 1 - 26/01/2014 07:35:43 PM 1599 Views
FT has also voted for ranagrande. *NM* - 26/01/2014 08:00:37 PM 768 Views
Thanks *NM* - 26/01/2014 08:02:13 PM 923 Views
I demand blood! Also he's coming off a bit odd. Vote: Praziquantel *NM* - 27/01/2014 02:37:38 AM 908 Views
Praziquantel has been lynched - 27/01/2014 07:49:45 PM 1571 Views
Twilight has begun - 28/01/2014 01:07:26 AM 1688 Views
Re: Twilight has begun - 28/01/2014 02:06:39 AM 1646 Views

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